Forums - MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL Show all 566 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=14430) Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:23:2001 08:58 PM: Since Jinmaster is closing his thread, I'll start this one for anyone that still has any questions. You can ask me about Combos (except for Roll) Basic Strats Advanced Strats 1st & 2nd Tier Strats Advice on best team choices Counter matchups General tourney advice Game system questions I basically try to play every character in the game and have combos for all of them, although I won't guarantee they're the greatest combos out there, I have a lot of stuff that isn't out there yet. Remember, this thread is more or less for short answer questions. Then again, when have I ever been known to give a short answer?? =P Basically, I want to not let this thread deviate too much from a Q&A thread. Ex. The difference between asking "How do I beat Cable with Megaman?" and "How do I play Megaman?" If you want detailed, specific character guides, ask me and I'll probably create another thread titled "How to play Megaman" or something along those lines. That will help keep this thread low enough traffic to not let anyone's questions slip through. Also, if you've seen me post on other threads and have any questions for me about what I've said in other places, feel free to ask. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:23:2001 09:37 PM: so on a scale of 1-10 how is mags/cable/psy. i know on IRC people were recommending cyclops in place of psy, but i dunno...its weird launching from his assist. also general magneto strategies are appreciated. i was watching shadyk vs omegablue off of clockw0rk's site, and i saw the cr. lk, cr. hk XX hypergrav. is this a good setup? Posted by Servebot on 04:23:2001 09:54 PM: can I get some tips for Pylocke? especially on her air combos ending with a super. what is a good partner for her besides Mag and storm with her AAA Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:23:2001 10:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 so on a scale of 1-10 how is mags/cable/psy. i know on IRC people were recommending cyclops in place of psy, but i dunno...its weird launching from his assist. also general magneto strategies are appreciated. i was watching shadyk vs omegablue off of clockw0rk's site, and i saw the cr. lk, cr. hk XX hypergrav. is this a good setup? I don't personally care for this team mostly cuz I don't think it has very good chemistry. Magneto more or less uses his meter as he gets it. He can do nice combos with just psylocke assist and throws to build meter, but people will eventually adjust to fighting Mags and I think that stuff will not be as useful as it is now. Anyway, for starters, Mags really can't build meter for Cable. He will probably have to do that himself, which is bad. Also, there isn't a very safe way for Cable to get in the match, short of Mags dying or variable countering into Cable with AHVB. The latter costs at least two meters and it's already stated the team doesn't build all that much meter. Cable/Psy is just as good as Cable/Cyke (in fact some people now prefer Psylocke's AAA over Cyke's now) as it does help Cable out a lot when handling jump-ins (amazing, an AAA actually used to stop jump-in attacks). But, if you play Cyke regularly, you'll have to adjust to the speed at which you have to AHVB off of Psy's AAA. Not a biggie, but something to consider. But, for this team, Mag/Psy is better than Mag/Cyke, so I would stick with Mags/Cable/Psylocke. The C.Short -> C.Rounhouse was a setup off of Psylocke AAA. You can combo a C.Short (call Psylocke) -> C.Forward (psylocke hits), C.Short (OTG, but you can juggle if you time it right) -> C.Roundhouse XX HyperGrav. After that, you can either cancel into Magnetic Tempest or launch. Continue with long magneto combo. Basic Magneto is hard to tell you about with words. You kind of have to see one and be able to recognize it first. Basically, you'll need to learn how to approach people. You have to learn what heights to air dash at for different characters and factor that in with different assists. It is different for different characters. You won't want to approach Cable/Cyke at the same angles you'd approach Sent/BH. You have to learn how to bait out AAAs (not too hard, just be within range and look like you're going to stick something out). You will have to learn what characters can't stop you from punishing assists. Also, you need to learn how to work in his Throws into combos. His punch throw is a hold, but it can be mashed out of, although most people don't know how to mash it so it's still useful. It can setup relaunches that reset the combo meter and also allow you to call psylock again. Because you threw, you can use Psylocke again (resets the combo) while the opponent is still being held by the throw. There is also a corner rethrow option. Do a launch near the corner, then SJ.Roundhouse, air dash downforward, Throw with roundhouse, S.J.jab, land, jump, air throw with roundhouse, J.Jab. From that, there are all kinds of things you can do. Call Psylocke, and tempest, or Call psylocke and launch, or whatever you want. Just try to not be patterned and it will eventually work out. You will need to get comfortable with Triangle Jumping (SJing, airdashing downforward) and it's timings, like timing it to hit in front of someone and timing it to be a cross-up. Any time you hit a A.D.Roundhouse, you should be able to combo that into Psylocke assist and either launch straight from that or do the juggle I mentioned above. I really can't think of anything else, but as I said, most if it has to be seen to understand it. Positioning and approach are probably the most fundamental (and important) part about Magneto. The big combos and options are next, as you don't really need them to win (but they're handy). Posted by *Dp on 04:23:2001 11:31 PM: In what way do you suggest Sent./Capcom play against Cable/AAA? Below are white's strat on how to beat cable what would you do diffirent if anything. "Posted by white First, Sentinel has to approach. Cable manages to keep Sentinel away with S.HP, SJ.HP, SJ.grenade, SJ.VB, AHVB and assists. First of all, Sentinel have to superjump. Cable's trap (S.HP> call Spiral-alpha> grenade, then repeat) is hard for Sentinel to superjump. If you succeed to superjump, Maybe Cable will shot SJ.HP and throw grenade or shot ViperBeam. Be careful not to loosen your guard. When Cable's bullet reach Sentinel, you should AG. then Cable begin to fall, but Sentinel stop in the air. As soon as Sentinel fall, you should fly and go up forward. If not Cable superjump back, Sentinel is safe and take the best position. So Cable will SJ back and aim to hit AHVB. You must expect the next Cable's move. When Cable SJ back, you should fly cancel. Then Cable is in the air, Sentinel is on the ground. And you run forward, you have done. When Cable is about to land, call CapCom and SJ.HK, you will take a best position. It is difficult to explain by the words. Many experiences and tight guard let you take best position. Second, what you should do when succeed to approach is keep the position. Basic paturn is call CapCom, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, fly cancel, land, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, call CapCom, fly cancel. This is quite annoying. After fly cancel, you sometimes should use C.LK to break Cable's guard, and connect to S.MK, RocketPunch, HSF. If some moves hit, you win. It is also difficult to explain. And really many experiences are required. If you have many HC meter, HSF> C.HP> call Spiral> RocketPunch> HSF, then repeat. The chip damage is about 50% with 5meter. Good luck!" Also, I play a duo of Iceman/Commando what teams would you say they counter? I know this is another possibly already ask question but let's say I have Sent./Capcom how would you suggest I get out of Doom/BH trap Doom on point doing jumping laser call BH SJ photon X2 repeat? thanks Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:23:2001 11:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL I don't personally care for this team mostly cuz I don't think it has very good chemistry. Magneto more or less uses his meter as he gets it. He can do nice combos with just psylocke assist and throws to build meter, but people will eventually adjust to fighting Mags and I think that stuff will not be as useful as it is now. Anyway, for starters, Mags really can't build meter for Cable. He will probably have to do that himself, which is bad. Also, there isn't a very safe way for Cable to get in the match, short of Mags dying or variable countering into Cable with AHVB. The latter costs at least two meters and it's already stated the team doesn't build all that much meter. Cable/Psy is just as good as Cable/Cyke (in fact some people now prefer Psylocke's AAA over Cyke's now) as it does help Cable out a lot when handling jump-ins (amazing, an AAA actually used to stop jump-in attacks). But, if you play Cyke regularly, you'll have to adjust to the speed at which you have to AHVB off of Psy's AAA. Not a biggie, but something to consider. But, for this team, Mag/Psy is better than Mag/Cyke, so I would stick with Mags/Cable/Psylocke. The C.Short -> C.Rounhouse was a setup off of Psylocke AAA. You can combo a C.Short (call Psylocke) -> C.Forward (psylocke hits), C.Short (OTG, but you can juggle if you time it right) -> C.Roundhouse XX HyperGrav. After that, you can either cancel into Magnetic Tempest or launch. Continue with long magneto combo. Basic Magneto is hard to tell you about with words. You kind of have to see one and be able to recognize it first. Basically, you'll need to learn how to approach people. You have to learn what heights to air dash at for different characters and factor that in with different assists. It is different for different characters. You won't want to approach Cable/Cyke at the same angles you'd approach Sent/BH. You have to learn how to bait out AAAs (not too hard, just be within range and look like you're going to stick something out). You will have to learn what characters can't stop you from punishing assists. Also, you need to learn how to work in his Throws into combos. His punch throw is a hold, but it can be mashed out of, although most people don't know how to mash it so it's still useful. It can setup relaunches that reset the combo meter and also allow you to call psylock again. Because you threw, you can use Psylocke again (resets the combo) while the opponent is still being held by the throw. There is also a corner rethrow option. Do a launch near the corner, then SJ.Roundhouse, air dash downforward, Throw with roundhouse, S.J.jab, land, jump, air throw with roundhouse, J.Jab. From that, there are all kinds of things you can do. Call Psylocke, and tempest, or Call psylocke and launch, or whatever you want. Just try to not be patterned and it will eventually work out. You will need to get comfortable with Triangle Jumping (SJing, airdashing downforward) and it's timings, like timing it to hit in front of someone and timing it to be a cross-up. Any time you hit a A.D.Roundhouse, you should be able to combo that into Psylocke assist and either launch straight from that or do the juggle I mentioned above. I really can't think of anything else, but as I said, most if it has to be seen to understand it. Positioning and approach are probably the most fundamental (and important) part about Magneto. The big combos and options are next, as you don't really need them to win (but they're handy). i dunno from my experience, mags builds lot of meters. but i don't see him spending it that often. anyways are you saying that as people start "getting used" to magneto, he'll suck? i've always been attempting tri.d. fierce/ tri.d. ck, mk into cr. lk, cr. fierce, so tri.d rk, psylocke is better? anyways i guess i'll have to start learning storm, since she's the only viable partner to this duo....:-( Posted by CaptainCanada on 04:24:2001 12:38 AM: Great that you're carrying on Jinmaster's tradition! I don't think I'll ever run outta questions for this game... 1) Whenever I tag in Cable and get a knockdown, I can never follow up with an OTG. What's a staple OTG combo for Cable? 2) I know this is kind of an open question, but what are some good beginner's strats for Cyclops? I've heard that this guy fits in great with the Storm/Cable team. Is there any place he should be utilized besides a setup for the AHVB? That's all for now... Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 01:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 i dunno from my experience, mags builds lot of meters. but i don't see him spending it that often. anyways are you saying that as people start "getting used" to magneto, he'll suck? i've always been attempting tri.d. fierce/ tri.d. ck, mk into cr. lk, cr. fierce, so tri.d rk, psylocke is better? anyways i guess i'll have to start learning storm, since she's the only viable partner to this duo....:-( In my experience, when you get into higher levels of play, it gets harder for Magneto to control a match. Mostly, you have to be able to literally take control of the match and keep it through throw options and cross-ups. The cross-ups aren't traditional SF cross-ups, but just things like dashing under someone before they land. Like, you can do the launch /\ SJ.Roundhouse XX Air dash down forward, AD.D.Short -> AD.Forward combo, and land in enough time to dash under the opponent and hit another C.Short before they notice it, starting another combo. What I'm saying isn't that Magneto sucks in higher levels of play, but it gets harder for him to gain control of a match-up and keep control. When fighting against him, you can learn how he is going to approach you and you can anticipate that and outmanuevre him and make him fall into your AAA. Even if he blocks it, it doesn't matter cuz you are keeping him away. It's much harder to get in on better players, that's why when you do you have to try to do as much damage as possible. Anyway, as scattered as it seems, my point here is that once I begin to understand how you attack me, and moreover how you keep control of me, I can begin to break out of it. At the current time, I haven't seen many players that know how to fight Magneto. I haven't until just recently, and I am in no way going to beat Duc or Ricky's Magneto. Honestly, those two along with Valle are in a class all their own. The fact that all three use that team has sparked a lot of interest in it, and thus you can see the increase in use of Magneto in other tournaments. The increased usage in Mags will prompt more people to learn how to fight it. It's like when Strider/Doom first appeared. There wasn't much understanding on how to beat it, but then when there was a fairly conventional counter, it decreased in popularity. It is still played today and it is still good, but players like Ricky and Valle don't play it as often and have opted for teams that require less controller precision. I think the Magneto/Storm/Psylocke is more of a fad right now than anything. Also, if you've ever been to SHGL tourneys, you'd also see that Duc and Valle don't use that team on each other. I would suspect it's because they both realize that they both understand how to fight against it. I've also heard about all of the mind games these two play on each other at the character select screen as well. At this point though, it's only speculation on my part. And, don't take my opinion to be law. As I said, I personally don't like Mags/Cable, but other people do. If it suits your needs, then play it. Don't learn Storm cuz she's "the only viable partner". I'd learn Storm anyway, but not for those reasons. As I said, I personally dont' like it. Then again, I also don't like Cable/Doom/Commando teams, which have been increasing in popularity recently as well. Posted by CoLoNeL on 04:24:2001 01:10 AM: Im entering a small mvc2 tournment this weekend it wont be long... only 30 players MAX i have some problems against a few players there.. i never win much against them the damage is higher than im used too No one is REALLY tough there.. like duc or alex or the undefeatable. Just people who play smart and counter and play safe. anyways the mainpoint is that this will be my first tourney... so any advice? I play like your average guy.... but what i really need to know is how to handle mental toughness and the likes. thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 01:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp In what way do you suggest Sent./Capcom play against Cable/AAA? Below are white's strat on how to beat cable what would you do diffirent if anything. "Posted by white First, Sentinel has to approach. Cable manages to keep Sentinel away with S.HP, SJ.HP, SJ.grenade, SJ.VB, AHVB and assists. First of all, Sentinel have to superjump. Cable's trap (S.HP> call Spiral-alpha> grenade, then repeat) is hard for Sentinel to superjump. If you succeed to superjump, Maybe Cable will shot SJ.HP and throw grenade or shot ViperBeam. Be careful not to loosen your guard. When Cable's bullet reach Sentinel, you should AG. then Cable begin to fall, but Sentinel stop in the air. As soon as Sentinel fall, you should fly and go up forward. If not Cable superjump back, Sentinel is safe and take the best position. So Cable will SJ back and aim to hit AHVB. You must expect the next Cable's move. When Cable SJ back, you should fly cancel. Then Cable is in the air, Sentinel is on the ground. And you run forward, you have done. When Cable is about to land, call CapCom and SJ.HK, you will take a best position. It is difficult to explain by the words. Many experiences and tight guard let you take best position. Second, what you should do when succeed to approach is keep the position. Basic paturn is call CapCom, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, fly cancel, land, SJ.HK, fly, J.HK, call CapCom, fly cancel. This is quite annoying. After fly cancel, you sometimes should use C.LK to break Cable's guard, and connect to S.MK, RocketPunch, HSF. If some moves hit, you win. It is also difficult to explain. And really many experiences are required. If you have many HC meter, HSF> C.HP> call Spiral> RocketPunch> HSF, then repeat. The chip damage is about 50% with 5meter. Good luck!" Also, I play a duo of Iceman/Commando what teams would you say they counter? I know this is another possibly already ask question but let's say I have Sent./Capcom how would you suggest I get out of Doom/BH trap Doom on point doing jumping laser call BH SJ photon X2 repeat? thanks On White's strategy: IMO, the Japanese don't have as solid a grasp on playing Cable as they do on playing Sentinel. I got that impression from watching the Japanese vids posted here on SRK.com. Also, on there is a slight whole in White's anti-Cable strategy. He describes "Maybe Cable will shot SJ.HP and throw grenade or shot ViperBeam". He doesn't go through if you don't shot a VB or a grenade. There are times when you can just land and be safe. You can always do nothing and Jab-Psimitar to hit him when he activates flight if anything to make him back off and keep him from taking "best position". Cable just has so many tools to fight Sentinel it's almost like it was planned that way. In short, Cable can regain control, mostly by using his own AAA and Psimitars and keep Sentinel guessing. You can all your AAA to hit Commando, and when you do, Sent has to back off or get hit. Either way, you can break out. As for Iceman, IMO he's best when you take advantage of his selective chipping. Basically, any team that doesn't have a way to chip him effectively is good for him. I would not use Iceman against Strider/Doom, Spiral, or Sentinel/BH. Against other teams, he's good though. You have to be really careful. The best Iceman strategy I've seen was from Rattana. Basically, he would call his AAA to push you off of him, and while that was happening he'd SJ and do the D.Fierce rock followed by a Fierce-Icebeam for chip. You really don't want to do too much more as it's not really safe. Other than that, just do typical punishing of assists and the like and be patient. Don't try to ground Icebeam a lot. If you have the lead, don't stick things out frivilously. It gets to some points in matches where you just have to block and tech hit and you win. For Sent/CapCom vs Doom/BH, you can use C.Fierce beam to escape that easily. C.Fierce BH before he throws the Inferno and then either wave dash under photons or SJ, fly, dodge the lasers and hit Doom. You're flying, Doom is heading towards the ground, and you can still call Commando. What better situation would you want? Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 01:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by CoLoNeL Im entering a small mvc2 tournment this weekend it wont be long... only 30 players MAX i have some problems against a few players there.. i never win much against them the damage is higher than im used too No one is REALLY tough there.. like duc or alex or the undefeatable. Just people who play smart and counter and play safe. anyways the mainpoint is that this will be my first tourney... so any advice? I play like your average guy.... but what i really need to know is how to handle mental toughness and the likes. thanks Well, of all the advice I can give you, if you take any of it into consideration, remember these two things. Use what you know. Don't pick a team because you know it will counter another team unless you're familiar with it. Also, make sure you have fun. I know loosing isn't always fun, but learning is. Also, you're spending time seeing good MVC2 matches, and doing it with other people. Tourneys are social events and are a fun place to hang out if you're into that sort of thing. Beyond that, here's some more advice -Plan out what team(s) you're going to use before you get there. Don't decide while your on the character select screen. Try to plan out what team you'd use if you fought XXX team or YYY team so you don't have to think about it. -If it's your first tournament, don't have high expectations. I'm not saying this to be depressing, but there is a certain amount of nerves that is required to do well in a tournament. If you have the nerves of steel already, you will do better. If you don't, you'll be nervous and get all shaky. Don't worry. You will eventually grow out of that. It just takes time, experience, and confidence. -Don't worry about loosing. The worst thing you can do is worry about who you're loosing too, how it will make you look, and how others will react upon beating you. Those will only make you more nervous. Don't talk shit to people, online or off, and try to be a friendly person. Use this opportunity to make friends with other players so you have more gaming buddies. -Set some kind of goal. I wouldn't say aim for the top, but set a realistic goal. Honestly, if it's your first tourney, i'd be happy with just winning one match and not going out in 2. Depending on how good your are, you may aim higher. But, if you have something you're striving for, it feels good when you get it. -Go early. Try to get some practice in so you don't go into the tourney cold. It also gives you a good scope of the competition. Watching other people play also can give you ideas about how to deal with other situations. -Again, it's supposed to be fun. Make sure it is. If you're not enjoying the thrill of competition, then why are you playing? If you like the game and have a competitive nature, you'll have fun whether you win or not. Don't play to talk shit later, play to play. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 02:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Great that you're carrying on Jinmaster's tradition! I don't think I'll ever run outta questions for this game... 1) Whenever I tag in Cable and get a knockdown, I can never follow up with an OTG. What's a staple OTG combo for Cable? C.Short -> S.Rounhouse, AHVB. I think you can only link one more AHVB after that unless you're hitting specific characters. Also, it depends on how you hit your opponent. Grounded opponents and airborne opponents will get hit differently. You can actually just AHVB straight off of the tag if you hit an airborne opponent. quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada 2) I know this is kind of an open question, but what are some good beginner's strats for Cyclops? I've heard that this guy fits in great with the Storm/Cable team. Is there any place he should be utilized besides a setup for the AHVB? That's all for now... He's a basic anti-air. He hits Doom out of rocks, and trades at worst with almost all other AAA. He also sets up air combos. Whenever he hits, dash forward and SJ and you should be able to pull off a full air combo. You can also variable counter into him (he'll do a Gene Splice) and you can cancel that into either a MOB (off of only one hit) or a SOB (2 or more hits) and DHC from there as well. Nifty trick to get someone off of your ass. I would say in general, it's better to start Cable/Storm/Cyke than Storm/Cable/Cyke. It's a matter of preference, but most of the matches I don't need Cable as the 2nd character. Only specific ones like Spiral/Sent or maybe something like Iceman. Cable breaks up teams like Sent/BH and Doom/BH fairly well. Cable/Cyke does a good job against Strider/Doom IMO, even though Strider is supposed to beat Cable. I just don't think he does if both of them start the match. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 04:24:2001 02:28 AM: I've been playing BH/Sent/Capcom...so I get to see lots of opening Cable. I've been starting Capcom against Cable. What do you think, good idea/bad idea? I realize the whole matchup isn't good, I'm just looking for the "least awful" option. -DFA Posted by *Dp on 04:24:2001 04:01 AM: Well it's obvious you don't suggest white's strats against Cable with Sent./Capcom but I should have made my question more clearer, what strats would YOU use against Cable/AAA? Also about Rat's iceman you said "Basically, he would call his AAA to push you off of him, and while that was happening he'd SJ and do the D.Fierce rock followed by a Fierce-Icebeam for chip. You really don't want to do too much more as it's not really safe." You said "Basically" what else other then the strat above made Rat's iceman so good? My current team is Iceman/Sent./Commando I like using Iceman/Sent. duo due to every meter equaling 15-20% blockdamage if you're not cable I have no expience against Strider/Doom so I guess that can be a potential weakness. but besides that and Cable that's the only real weakness in my team that I know of. One of my teams real strengths are control at the beginning of a match.Sure I'll eat a AHVB if I start Sent. against cable sure I'll eat dooms rocks against strider/doom. All for them not being a threat. Let's not forget about Sentinel's SUPER dare I say glitch ability to build around half a meter each repition of rocks (there's two rep's in each doom assist one swirling around him and one going out which I'm sure you already know) allowing him to build around half a meter either way in the begining of the game your going to to take about the same damage blocking from strider/doom so why not take damage and build meter at the same time? Now most people won't start cable but just in case they do Sent. will be there. I might get AHVB'd but I'll mostly likey get all the damage back in chip before he can build another meter which is about 8 blocked icebeams would you say that's reasonable in "High-level tourney play. Posted by Defective on 04:24:2001 06:13 AM: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL Can you give me Felicia tips? Is it just me or does alot of her moves seem useless? Here's what I already know: 1.Punch throw for meter. 2.Sandkick Super to hurt assists and cross-ups(not on Cable) 3.Most damaging aircombo-launch jumping Roundhouse, DP+K. 4.Please Help Me is strongest Super. 5.Qcf+P can be used for dashing when opponent is high up. 6.Super Jump DP+K can be somewhat uses to get in. Any cool tricks or big combos? I heard she has an infinite on Sentinel? Thanks in advance. Posted by Six-Armed on 04:24:2001 06:36 AM: how many fingers is spiral holding up........ Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:24:2001 07:55 AM: sorry for asking so many questions, but i entered the MVC2 scene a little late (too busy with tekken tag). anywyas i have 3 main teams, one of which you already covered. strider/doom/commando is a good team, but how does commando figure into this team outside of stopping storm dead and preventing sentinel stomps. i remember something in the sentinel vs. strider topic in viscant's long thread about throwing a hawk, call capcom (or was it the other way around), teleport->bird->orbs etc. i've tried this trick a couple times...is it to prevent sentinel from jumping AND keep him blocking? if so what does CapCom coming out have to figure into this? anyways my biggest problem with strider/doom is locating myself when the orbs end. i know that if you're near the corner, you can almost instantly start up orbs again (since the previous orbs have already exited) but most of the time my opponent is in the corner and i won't be able to bridge the gap between orbs-(last second) Doom and another set of orb. you've covered battling anti-airs on IRC so i don't need helps on that... also how is spiral/cable/commando? spirals/cable is a good duo beecause of spiral's battery abilities and she can hang with the rest of the top tier anyways. but commando...cable/capcom seems to be the rage these days, but he's not as good for spiral as BH is...or is he? btw, what do you think is the best cable team? cable/clops/xxx? Thanks in advance Posted by Adept on 04:24:2001 09:57 AM: Cable's AC What's an air combo for Cable that leads into the AVHB. Plz let me know if there is any awkward timing involved for different sized characters Posted by DavestA on 04:24:2001 12:45 PM: do u know whether or not its possible to use cyke's AAA assist to compliment Sentinnel AircombO? Posted by Fakefist on 04:24:2001 03:39 PM: Hey Fluffy. You and Jinmaster have a definite talent for explaining deeper strats/tech in MvC2. Even if you explained something I already know, it's a good read, because you'll usually tack on something I didn't, or express it in a way that I intuitively knew, but hadn't been able to explain myself fully. Good work. Good stuff. Anyway, here's my question(s): How does the "typical" Cyke/BH rush work? if you could lay out the notation for me, I'd appreciate it. Also, tacked on to that: How exactly does the BH infinite go from that? I'm always messing it up after a few cycles. Also, do you know if Omega Red has any combos with multiple coils that don't involve the opponent being cornered or OR's back being to the corner? I haven't found any yet... Thanks. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 04:47 PM: Re: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL quote: Originally posted by Defective Can you give me Felicia tips? Is it just me or does alot of her moves seem useless? Here's what I already know: 1.Punch throw for meter. 2.Sandkick Super to hurt assists and cross-ups(not on Cable) 3.Most damaging aircombo-launch jumping Roundhouse, DP+K. 4.Please Help Me is strongest Super. 5.Qcf+P can be used for dashing when opponent is high up. 6.Super Jump DP+K can be somewhat uses to get in. Any cool tricks or big combos? I heard she has an infinite on Sentinel? Thanks in advance. I can't really tell you more that what you already have there. Sentinel infinite is like the Strider one though. It's J.Jab -> J.Short -> J.Strong (2hits) -> J.Fierce -> J.Roundhouse, land, repeat. And you can use it to push him into the corner and combo a PHM. You might be able to do more than one, but I'm not sure cuz of his weight and I don't have my DC handy at the moment. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 05:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by Servebot can I get some tips for Pylocke? especially on her air combos ending with a super. what is a good partner for her besides Mag and storm with her AAA Psylocke is a better support character than a primary. She does really well, but only when there are some obsticles taken out of her way. She doesn't have much in the way of getting around assists, so she's best in a situation where her opponent doesn't have any assists left or has easily dealt with assists. Her basic strat is a rushdown style trap which is just Dashing S.Fierce XX Fierce-Psi Blast, repeat. If you still have a helper, you can also call that in between to make it even tighter. But, it's pretty good at locking down and building meter. This basically means she's really good at maintaining a lead and furthering it slightly. Also, you can mix in throws here and there. As I said before, she's best as a support character and is used more for her assist than anything. Her assist is a lot like Cyke's except it doesn't have such a wide arch and it recovers faster. Her best teams are Mags/Storm/Psy and fits well into most teams that require some kind of generic AAA to help them out. I remember once when I was at a local mall playing the scrubs there and I went on pretty good win streak using Wolverine/Storm/Psylocke. Her assist sets up lots of air combos and other combos for characters. I would say that is more important than anything. As for her own combos, the basic air combo is C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Forward -> S.J.U.Roundhouse /\ D.J.Jab -> D.J.Short -> D.J.Forward -> D.J.U.Roundhouse (1hit) XX Short-Psi-blade EX Kochou Gakure There are also much stronger (and flashier) variants in the corner. You can use setups like either D.S.Jab -> S.Strong -> C.Roundhouse XX Jab-Psi Blast (OTG) C.Fierce /\ or D.S.Jab -> S.Short -> C.Forward XX Kochou Gakure, C.Short (OTG) C.Fierce or D.S.Jab -> S.Short -> C.Forward -> C.Fierce and can do those into C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Forward -> S.J.U.Roundhouse (1hit) XX Fierce-Psi-Blast, S.J.Jab -> S.J.U.Roundhouse /\ D.J.Jab -> D.J.Short -> D.J.Forward -> D.J.U.Roundhouse (1hit) XX Fierce-Psi-Blast EX Kochou Gakure Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 05:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove I've been playing BH/Sent/Capcom...so I get to see lots of opening Cable. I've been starting Capcom against Cable. What do you think, good idea/bad idea? I realize the whole matchup isn't good, I'm just looking for the "least awful" option. -DFA I would say it's probably better to start BH against Cable. BH/CapCom isn't the best matchup in the world, but it's still fairly do-able. All you really need to do is use CapCom to make Cable block so you can SJ and throw demons. Your basic goal is to make him block and build as much meter as possible while he doesn't build any. If you can bait him to use his first meter really early on Sentinel, then you'll have a much easier fight. Sent will recover as you build meter and then you can Inferno XX HOD DHC HSF and commence Sent/Bh trappings for even more chip. Hopefully, you can kill a Cable doing that. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 05:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Well it's obvious you don't suggest white's strats against Cable with Sent./Capcom but I should have made my question more clearer, what strats would YOU use against Cable/AAA? Also about Rat's iceman you said "Basically, he would call his AAA to push you off of him, and while that was happening he'd SJ and do the D.Fierce rock followed by a Fierce-Icebeam for chip. You really don't want to do too much more as it's not really safe." You said "Basically" what else other then the strat above made Rat's iceman so good? My current team is Iceman/Sent./Commando I like using Iceman/Sent. duo due to every meter equaling 15-20% blockdamage if you're not cable I have no expience against Strider/Doom so I guess that can be a potential weakness. but besides that and Cable that's the only real weakness in my team that I know of. One of my teams real strengths are control at the beginning of a match.Sure I'll eat a AHVB if I start Sent. against cable sure I'll eat dooms rocks against strider/doom. All for them not being a threat. Let's not forget about Sentinel's SUPER dare I say glitch ability to build around half a meter each repition of rocks (there's two rep's in each doom assist one swirling around him and one going out which I'm sure you already know) allowing him to build around half a meter either way in the begining of the game your going to to take about the same damage blocking from strider/doom so why not take damage and build meter at the same time? Now most people won't start cable but just in case they do Sent. will be there. I might get AHVB'd but I'll mostly likey get all the damage back in chip before he can build another meter which is about 8 blocked icebeams would you say that's reasonable in "High-level tourney play. "Basically" means that's all you really want to do. His Icebeams do a lot of chip damage, but they aren't too safe to do sometimes. Using Commando, you make it safe. The only other safe tactic I've heard of for Iceman is using S.Roundhouse, but I haven't experimented much with this yet. You might be able to S.Roundhouse (call Sent) XX Jab-Icebeam and while Sent assist hits, you could probably Sj.D.Fierce XX Fierce-Icebeam for even more chip. Other than that, all you need is his basic air combo (C.Roundhouse /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Arctic Attack) to do damage. Just experiment a bit and see what works. Posted by MyClone on 04:24:2001 05:38 PM: I use Magneto/Storm/Psylocke and I have been having a lot of trouble fighting Blackheart. My friend who plays with Blackheart/Cable/Doom is good at keeping me away and he always seems to know the right time to Inferno into HoD when I'm trying to get in on him. It's really frustrating. Any advice for different teams to counter that one would be apreciated as well. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 05:54 PM: Re: Cable's AC quote: Originally posted by Adept What's an air combo for Cable that leads into the AVHB. Plz let me know if there is any awkward timing involved for different sized characters OC.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong XX Air Hyper Viper Beam Don't hold any direction when you super jump. Just straight up. It will give you enough room to do the AHVB. Posted by Dasrik on 04:24:2001 07:43 PM: Re: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL quote: Originally posted by Defective Can you give me Felicia tips? Is it just me or does alot of her moves seem useless? Here's what I already know: 1.Punch throw for meter. 2.Sandkick Super to hurt assists and cross-ups(not on Cable) 3.Most damaging aircombo-launch jumping Roundhouse, DP+K. 4.Please Help Me is strongest Super. 5.Qcf+P can be used for dashing when opponent is high up. 6.Super Jump DP+K can be somewhat uses to get in. Any cool tricks or big combos? I heard she has an infinite on Sentinel? Thanks in advance. Felicia's a character of very limited use. She basically only really exists to counter Strider/Doom, and that only really works if your opponent doesn't really know about the counter that well. Here are some other tips. * You shouldn't go for air-combos that much, unless you've just done an air counter. Best B&B combo is c.short -> c.forward xx whatever (super, sand splash or rolling flash uppercut). Please Help Me is strong, but because it's so location specific I don't think I would rely on it that much. * DP+P finds use against low short fiends, and regular sand splash (qcf+k) knocks away helpers and has really good range and recovery. It's also her best assist (beta). I wouldn't recommend using DP+K very much, actually, because it's slow. Oh yeah, learn to wavedash - Felicia's dash gets really fast if you do, and it requires less commitment than doing her Rolling Flash startup. * Hyper Sand Splash is a good way to counter ground hits (and to cancel the Ouroburos on sight), but it works well only on the ground. If you hit someone out of the air, they might take a hit, fall back and block the rest. It's a good chipper, though. The absolute best way to do HSS is to drop B-Doom first - it becomes safe that way (even on Cable, I believe). * Infinite on Sentinel: (jump) jab -> short -> forward -> fierce -> roundhouse, repeat. Don't expect Sentinel to simply allow you to land it, though. I haven't quite mastered it yet, but you can do it if Senty does something dumb like Rocket Punch right in front of you. * The best Felicia team I find is Doom/Felicia/Blackheart, since B-Doom helps out Felicia and he can bring her in easy. But other partners work well, too - Cyclops is good anti-air (and helps to eat drones so you can safely Hyper Sand Splash Sentinel); Sentinel makes rushers happy. And for a long time I used BBHood/Morrigan/Felicia on scrubs - Team DarkStalkers Has absolutely no team chemistry, though. Posted by Da Azn Angel on 04:24:2001 08:40 PM: can u give me some timing tips for the second throw in magneto's combo reset air combo jawn? u said it was launcher, sj kh, air dash down forward, roundhouse throw, sj jab, then another throw? what is the timing for the jab and the thrwo? is it better to do the jab late? early? is it better to wait a bit when u throw or rejump immediately? Posted by Dasrik on 04:24:2001 08:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fakefist Anyway, here's my question(s): How does the "typical" Cyke/BH rush work? if you could lay out the notation for me, I'd appreciate it. Also, tacked on to that: How exactly does the BH infinite go from that? I'm always messing it up after a few cycles. BH/Cyke rushdown is simple on paper - j.short, j.forward, call Cyke, repeat. It works because BH's j.short has God-like priority and Cyke's invincibility frames snuff most other AAA attempts. However, you probably will have to adjust for contingencies, and you will have to drop roundhouse demons eventually. If you catch them with the jump-in, do c.short (call Cyke), c.forward, then either inferno xx HOD or start the infinite by SJ.roundhouse to catch their body, then airdash back and do roundhouse again. It takes getting used to, but it's doable... Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 09:35 PM: Re: Strider/Doom/Commando quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 sorry for asking so many questions, but i entered the MVC2 scene a little late (too busy with tekken tag). anywyas i have 3 main teams, one of which you already covered. strider/doom/commando is a good team, but how does commando figure into this team outside of stopping storm dead and preventing sentinel stomps. i remember something in the sentinel vs. strider topic in viscant's long thread about throwing a hawk, call capcom (or was it the other way around), teleport->bird->orbs etc. i've tried this trick a couple times...is it to prevent sentinel from jumping AND keep him blocking? if so what does CapCom coming out have to figure into this? anyways my biggest problem with strider/doom is locating myself when the orbs end. i know that if you're near the corner, you can almost instantly start up orbs again (since the previous orbs have already exited) but most of the time my opponent is in the corner and i won't be able to bridge the gap between orbs-(last second) Doom and another set of orb. you've covered battling anti-airs on IRC so i don't need helps on that... also how is spiral/cable/commando? spirals/cable is a good duo beecause of spiral's battery abilities and she can hang with the rest of the top tier anyways. but commando...cable/capcom seems to be the rage these days, but he's not as good for spiral as BH is...or is he? btw, what do you think is the best cable team? cable/clops/xxx? Thanks in advance Well, I vaguely remember that in Viscant's "MVC2: The View From Here" thread (good thread for anyone that hasn't followed MVC2 and wants to learn BTW) but I believe that specific pattern was if someone was pushblocking you off. Basically, if someone pushblocks you, you wave dash and call Commando once you're within his range. If you're opponent doesn't do attack you, he will either just block commando or try to SJ out. If he SJs, he has to block commando and will come back down. As long as he blocks Commando, on the ground or Sjumping, you throw the bird and cancel to Ouro in order to keep the trap going. If he SJed, the bird will hit him (he'll block) and you'll have him back in Ouroboros and can call Doom probably before he lands. If he's on the ground and blocked then the bird will keep him from jumping out and you can cancel it into Ouro and keep the trap going. Commando was there to keep you opponent from SJing and to hit those pesky assists out of the way. In general, Commando has the tendency to cut the screen in half. Your opponent can no longer be on your half of the screen unless he's going behind you. The closer you get to him, the more space he looses to manuevre before he has to block Commando. This holds true with a lot of teams. That's why Strider/Doom/Commando is still such a good team. As for Spiral, IMO, the best Spiral team is Spiral/Cable/Sent. I think it's been talked about to death in these forums, so I'll leave it alone. If you really need a discrpition, I can look for it. But, i'd check out Jinmaster's thread, cuz I know i talked about it there. Spiral/Cable/Commando isn't as good a team as others, unless you're fighting Viscant =P. Anyway, the only reason I would play Spiral without Sentinel is if I'm fighting Strider/Doom. Then, I'd use the old school Spiral/Cable/Cyke or maybe Psylocke instead of cyke. There aren't many other instances where Commando would be that much more off an asset than having Cable on Anti-Air Assist. IMO, the best Cable team is probably either B-Cable/Y-Storm/A-Psylocke or B-Cable/B-Blackheart/B-Cyclops. Both of these teams play fairly similarly for Cable, it's more a matter of preference as to who you like better between Storm and Blackheart. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:24:2001 10:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by DavestA do u know whether or not its possible to use cyke's AAA assist to compliment Sentinnel AircombO? Yes, you can use Cyke's AAA to set up damn near any air combo. It does work with Sentinel, although nowhere near as much damage as Sent doing it on his own. Posted by JaHa on 04:25:2001 06:03 AM: hey RYU1999 i play with viscant and shady K and mah advice is ur magneto team is fine with psylocke actually magneto can do alot more with psylocke(combo wise)people prefer cyclops because he has more playability me personally i prefer using storm instead of cable though but if ur adjusted to that team keep usin it and with strider doom and capcom you use capcoms assist to break the the rushdowns and make the space u need to start the trap again and as far as keeping the trap going..if ur doing it right and hittin them keep hitting them till near the end of the super time and combo into a launcher to air combo..if theyre blockin teleport and go high to low and try to fakem out...if they keep blockin push them into dooms AAA assist for good chip damage and before the super time ends use Dooms AAA and combo back into the super to keep the trap goin...atttack as much as u can while in the super to build the next meter..its kinda hard to absorb it all at the same time..but thats the way to play strider doom..well thats the way shady and clockwork play theyre strider doom and other top players..from me watchin them Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:25:2001 06:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by JaHa hey RYU1999 i play with viscant and shady K and mah advice is ur magneto team is fine with psylocke actually magneto can do alot more with psylocke(combo wise)people prefer cyclops because he has more playability me personally i prefer using storm instead of cable though but if ur adjusted to that team keep usin it and with strider doom and capcom you use capcoms assist to break the the rushdowns and make the space u need to start the trap again and as far as keeping the trap going..if ur doing it right and hittin them keep hitting them till near the end of the super time and combo into a launcher to air combo..if theyre blockin teleport and go high to low and try to fakem out...if they keep blockin push them into dooms AAA assist for good chip damage and before the super time ends use Dooms AAA and combo back into the super to keep the trap goin...atttack as much as u can while in the super to build the next meter..its kinda hard to absorb it all at the same time..but thats the way to play strider doom..well thats the way shady and clockwork play theyre strider doom and other top players..from me watchin them thanks a lot for the advice. i really need cable sometimes :-) but my biggest weakness in my strider/doom game is my positioning once my orbs end and after i called doom. usually my back is very far from the wall (can't activate orbs again until orbs walk off screen as you well know) so there'll be a space for my opponent to break the trap. also sometimes when i call doom and try to teleport to the other side, doom's rocks push him a bit farther and i end up in front of him...perhaps i should teleport earlier? on mags/psy, the basic pattern is cr. lk+psy, cr. mk, if blocked triangle jump rh...then that's where it gets fuzzy..some peopel recommend i call psy again, while for some reason i try to cr. lk, launch. the latter whiffes a lot of the time so i dunno what to do after a succesfull cross up. Posted by JaHa on 04:25:2001 08:52 AM: well ryu1999 i know what ur sayin with the strider/doom trap a common combo that is used to start it again is c lk lk fk fireball with lk or fk and cancel into the super thatll close the gap and if u called dooms AAA if theyre blockin u should be hittin him from both sides..if hes gettin hit well the rocks knock ur opponent up thats jus the way it goes jus go with it learn in and get used to it and to see a good strider check out clockwork's site with mag and psy its a lil harder team but just as deadly instead of one lk into psy try lk lk into psy itll work jus as well...i think ur doin the wrong triangle jump...sj into dash d/f..with fk..do that if theyre still blocking do it again but this time u should hitem from the back(mean head game)u can do it back and forth around ur character till u see a hit then start the combo also throw in that c lk lk psy AAA so u have then blockin both ways high and low also try jumpin over them with or without a dash (depends on distance) and call a assist it confuses ur opponent..mix it up theres a lot of tricks and head games with mag once u see a hit start the massive combo...and practice and perfect the long deadly combo so one hit opens up a killer combo Posted by Exploit on 04:25:2001 05:03 PM: What would be a good team to pair up with storm? I tried playing certain characters but, just didn't have chemistry. any suggestions? Posted by cheese_master on 04:25:2001 06:50 PM: Fluffy XXL, I read your post on Mag, Storm, and Psy teams. I personally feel despite what you say as it being a fad team... it is a great trap breaking team that causes problems for different people and have very few weaknesses. I find they work great against Spiral, Cable, Sent teams. They alo be a pain for Strider/Doom/AAA. Sentinel, Blackheart, and Capcom has some problems because of the inability to trap them easily and effectively. The only two things that I really have problems with this team is Cable/Capcom or Cable/Blackheart/Cyclops. Mainly two reasons... I have problems rushing down Blackheart at point with AAA. My question is that what the best way to avoid the infinite and get past the damn AAA he call out before jumping up. I find every now and then super jumping and nailing him w/ a EM Disruptor works for Mag, but he can always dash cancel his move only blocking it. While this may chip him... it doesn't stop the greater evil at work... building up 5 supers for Cable. All that and don't forget the beautiful Inferno XX HOD chip he may do every now and then. What do you recommend I do against B.heart? And once Cable comes in with 5 supers. Its hard to decide whether I want Storm to die as an assist character or Magneto to die trying to rushdown Cable and get hit by Cyclops. So my second question is... what exactly is the "sweet spot" that I should be in to avoid Cyclops AAA while rushing down Cable? Everyone says right above Cable... but he can just jump back and call Cyke. Sometimes I get lucky enough to snapback Cable when Cyke is in... then the good ole launch to death... that makes my life easier. But I need a consistent strat. Those were my two questions. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:25:2001 07:34 PM: Re: Magneto vs BH quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Fluffy XXL, I read your post on Mag, Storm, and Psy teams. I personally feel despite what you say as it being a fad team... it is a great trap breaking team that causes problems for different people and have very few weaknesses. I find they work great against Spiral, Cable, Sent teams. They alo be a pain for Strider/Doom/AAA. Sentinel, Blackheart, and Capcom has some problems because of the inability to trap them easily and effectively. The only two things that I really have problems with this team is Cable/Capcom or Cable/Blackheart/Cyclops. Mainly two reasons... I have problems rushing down Blackheart at point with AAA. My question is that what the best way to avoid the infinite and get past the damn AAA he call out before jumping up. I find every now and then super jumping and nailing him w/ a EM Disruptor works for Mag, but he can always dash cancel his move only blocking it. While this may chip him... it doesn't stop the greater evil at work... building up 5 supers for Cable. All that and don't forget the beautiful Inferno XX HOD chip he may do every now and then. What do you recommend I do against B.heart? And once Cable comes in with 5 supers. Its hard to decide whether I want Storm to die as an assist character or Magneto to die trying to rushdown Cable and get hit by Cyclops. So my second question is... what exactly is the "sweet spot" that I should be in to avoid Cyclops AAA while rushing down Cable? Everyone says right above Cable... but he can just jump back and call Cyke. Sometimes I get lucky enough to snapback Cable when Cyke is in... then the good ole launch to death... that makes my life easier. But I need a consistent strat. Those were my two questions. As for Mags on BH, I don't really play Mags that often, but I play BH a lot, so I get to see this match from the other side of the screen. Basically, you have to react to what BH is going to do. As the match starts, BH will most likely do normal BH/cyke pattern (C.LK+Cyke, C.Forward) and then SJ.Roundhouse, cross over air dash. Once he does that, you have to pay attention to what he does next. If he comes down with a Short, you can launch that. If he goes back with another Roundhouse demons, you can SJ up and then air dash past it to come down on top of him. The important thing to remember is that you don't have to attack him. Just let him call his helper and block it. If he comes down close to you, use your AAA to try to hit him. Psylocke will hit him at the angle that he comes down at with the SJ.Short. Hopefully, you can make the most out of your combo opportunities and kill Blackheart off. Assuming you have enough life, I don't recommend fighting Cable with Magneto. I would try to build up to at least two meters by SJing and air dashing off of the screen while hitting Fierces and then when I have the two meters, Shockwave DHC to HailStorm and run away with Storm (assuming Storm is full). If Cable doesn't have BH, it should be fairly easy to beat him. All you really need to do is stay as high as possible and don't do anything when you're within AHVB range. Don't call helpers, don't try to chip, don't try anything short of a throw. You will get to the point where Cable will either burn all of his meter in chip or will try so hard to attack you he really leaves himself open. Just wait for a mistake and capitalize. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:25:2001 07:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by Da Azn Angel can u give me some timing tips for the second throw in magneto's combo reset air combo jawn? u said it was launcher, sj kh, air dash down forward, roundhouse throw, sj jab, then another throw? what is the timing for the jab and the thrwo? is it better to do the jab late? early? is it better to wait a bit when u throw or rejump immediately? Well, there are all kinds of variants, but the basics are C.Fierce /\ S.J.Roundhouse XX Air Dash Down Forward, Roundhouse Throw, Jab (will keep him airborne), land, jump, Roundhouse Throw... You can end it with whatever you want. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:25:2001 07:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 thanks a lot for the advice. i really need cable sometimes :-) but my biggest weakness in my strider/doom game is my positioning once my orbs end and after i called doom. usually my back is very far from the wall (can't activate orbs again until orbs walk off screen as you well know) so there'll be a space for my opponent to break the trap. also sometimes when i call doom and try to teleport to the other side, doom's rocks push him a bit farther and i end up in front of him...perhaps i should teleport earlier? on mags/psy, the basic pattern is cr. lk+psy, cr. mk, if blocked triangle jump rh...then that's where it gets fuzzy..some peopel recommend i call psy again, while for some reason i try to cr. lk, launch. the latter whiffes a lot of the time so i dunno what to do after a succesfull cross up. Strider/Doom: Basically, when I do it, I call Doom at the end of Ouroboros, so he holds them there while the orbs leave. I also throw two kitties and then a bird XX Ouro. Hopefully, you can throw two kitties and the 2nd is supposed to hit them after the Doom rocks hit them. Then, then can't jump. Wave dash towards them. Don't do anything. Just wait to see what they do. More than likely, then will call an AAA. You should know what to do from there. Mags/Psy: Well, that's where you have to mix it up. You have a lot of options. You can try to throw. You can do a C.Short, then triangle jump again. You can triangle jump with nothing and then C.short. You can just repeatedly triangle jump as though you were doing repeated overheads. Once you get in, there are plenty of things that you can do. As long as you stay near your opponent, you are keeping the pressure on, even if you aren't actually hitting him. He'll stick something out that you can hit. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:25:2001 07:50 PM: my biggest fear is that when i try to throw kitties, that cable will AHVB that shit. is it possible? Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:25:2001 07:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ryu1999 my biggest fear is that when i try to throw kitties, that cable will AHVB that shit. is it possible? That's why you throw two. One when Doom is hitting, and another right after that so it will hit him after the Doom rocks do. You recover fast enough to throw a kittie and then a birdie XX ouro. It should cover an AHVB. If you are really worried about it, just teleport closer to him and wait for AAA. You have options. Posted by CaptainCanada on 04:26:2001 05:30 AM: Couple more quick questions. 1) Whenever I catch someone blocking Doom's rocks, I usually fire up the ol' FPx4 xx Viper Beam to pin them down, as well as chip a little. In the tourney videos, I see them doing FPx2 (varies) xx Grenade. Is this more effective? I'm more of a keep away player, so chipping is more my thing...but the grenade pins them down some more. I guess the question here is, what's the better way to follow up Cable's S.FP? 2) When's the right time to start triangle jumping with Storm? I got nailed with AAA's on a few occasions today, then they followed into HSF, and...yeah. Should I keep the pressure on by triangle jumping constantly and hoping they try to stick out an attack, so I can launch them? Whenever I tried calling out Doom first, Storm and Doom both got nailed after the opponent hit the AAA -> Super. Thanks, keep the thread going! Posted by NanoBoi on 04:26:2001 05:32 AM: what are some good teams vs spiral/sent Posted by *Dp on 04:26:2001 06:11 AM: After people have played duc, ricky, valle they say "There on a diffirent level" what do you think people mean by this? Also whenever your watching someone play what are the main things the look for? Certain patterns? How do you figure out there game plan? Is it obvious to you? Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:26:2001 06:19 AM: How common is runaway Storm in major tournaments? I noticed in the Viscant vs Duc match that Viscant could of just rant versus Cable/Sent, but chose not to for whatever reason. Any idea why? Posted by *Dp on 04:26:2001 06:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander How common is runaway Storm in major tournaments? I noticed in the Viscant vs Duc match that Viscant could of just rant versus Cable/Sent, but chose not to for whatever reason. Any idea why? http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=14664 This link should help. Posted by Da Azn Angel on 04:26:2001 06:32 AM: ok for the psylocke on sentinel infinite, any tips on doing this? i can only get around 25 hits for the iron man infinite, one u end witht he repulsor blast or whateva, how do u do the photron cannon facing the opposite direction? Posted by Onikage on 04:26:2001 01:01 PM: Heyas Fluffy, got two Storm questions for ya. My runaway Storm sucks. Once I get in the air, how do I stay there? I can't be using the right moves, cuz I get thrashed. I saw on the newest vids she had an infinite. Is it practical, and what are some decent setups for it? Posted by Tuff Daddy on 04:26:2001 02:39 PM: What up Fluffy, a question for ya. Not sure if I am the only one but I mostly have been playing MVC2 on DC with a few (very few) trips to the arcade when I get time. Its to the point where I can beat my friends with my eyes closed. Usually 5-7 friends can't get me to give up my arcade stick at home. How does one make the transition from dominating on the console to loosing at tourney play. I'm no expert but I'd really like to play in tourneys and loose to the real competition Are tourneys more for testing skill or learning? How do I get out of the console comfort zone? Thanks, T. Diddy Posted by RaginDemon on 04:26:2001 04:29 PM: I'm pretty good with amingo, but is he someone I should stick with if I'm going to actually compete? He has a really hard time dealing with traps and such... Posted by CaptainCanada on 04:26:2001 05:55 PM: One more question: In Cable vs. Cable, can Cable AHVB that shit when he blocks the other Cable's AHVB attempt? Which is faster, the startup, or the recovery? (tough question, actually ) Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:26:2001 06:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=14664 This link should help. He explained what he did very well, but I was wondering why he didn't take the safer option. He never says "I didn't run because of .... or running away wouldn't be a good choice because of ...." Thanks for the link though. Posted by Dasrik on 04:26:2001 08:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada One more question: In Cable vs. Cable, can Cable AHVB that shit when he blocks the other Cable's AHVB attempt? Which is faster, the startup, or the recovery? (tough question, actually ) I don't really have the answer to your question, but I did want to point out one thing: AHVB does have startup after the super flash. One frame, I believe. That is enough time to reverse something that will get you out of there, as long as you input the motion during the flash and hit the button after. Good examples: * The teleports of Spiral, Dhalsim, Evil Sakura and (maybe) Bison. (Psylocke's won't work, nor will Akuma's.) * Cammy's and Ken's DP moves. While Cammy's only works on the ground, she can hypercancel to a Killer Bee Assault to punish Cable. Either one will use their invincibility time to avoid AHVB. They'll still land on it, but they'll avoid AHVBx3. * DHC an instant start super if you're still able to. ie. if Doom does Photon Array and Cable evades and starts AHVB, you can DHC into Proton Cannon and hit Cable before the beam ever comes out. Soul Eraser also works in this way; things that have a frame of startup won't (like Hail Storm). Hey with that in mind, an AHVB to counter another one shouldn't work... Some not-all-that-useless trivia for you. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 09:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada One more question: In Cable vs. Cable, can Cable AHVB that shit when he blocks the other Cable's AHVB attempt? Which is faster, the startup, or the recovery? (tough question, actually ) The key here isn't about startup and recovery, it's about blockstun. The start is really fast like dasrik said, and i believe the recovery is fast as well, although I don't know exact framerates for it. It is faster than blockstun though. So, if Cable does AHVB, and I try to AHVB on recovery, he should be on the ground and blocking, granted he did it low enough to the ground. You can counter it though if Cable is not in. You can variable counter at the end of the beam to Cable, who will do the Fierce-Psimitar if you pick AAA, and then AHVB off of that if you have godly timing and can do it right off of the ground. It is possible, but I've only seen it done by a few people. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 09:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander He explained what he did very well, but I was wondering why he didn't take the safer option. He never says "I didn't run because of .... or running away wouldn't be a good choice because of ...." Thanks for the link though. I would have ran. Everytime I kill a character, unless I'm going for a guard break, I compare life totals. If I have enough, I put the Pro Wings on and run my ass off. Especially when he had just killed Cable. I think maybe Viscant didn't think he had enough of a lead against Duc's Sentinel. Also, maybe he just didn't look at the life meter and time. There are a lot of maybes and i would just take what he himself has said as being his reasons. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 09:56 PM: Re: Amingo quote: Originally posted by RaginDemon I'm pretty good with amingo, but is he someone I should stick with if I'm going to actually compete? He has a really hard time dealing with traps and such... If you like using Amingo, I would say switch it go someone else. The main problem I have with Amingo is that he lacks a massive damage super. If you look, most of the better characters have some super or combo that will do at least 50% damage and is reasonable to land. That is one of the traits that make the top characters top. Also, I don't like his Variable Team super or his DHC abilities. It really restricts you in what you can pick to go along with him. I would say pick up another character. Play Venom. This is kind of a personal opinion, but Venom does pay a lot like Amingo, cept he has better ranged attacks, Jab fangs are safe outside of the corner and are better than the spinning ball move, and he's got an air dash (always good). He can combo supers off of throws and is an all around fun character to play. He does play similar to Amingo as well, so he shouldn't be hard to pick up. Venom/Sentinel is a good team for him. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 10:02 PM: Re: Psylocke infinite on Sent quote: Originally posted by Da Azn Angel ok for the psylocke on sentinel infinite, any tips on doing this? i can only get around 25 hits for the iron man infinite, one u end witht he repulsor blast or whateva, how do u do the photron cannon facing the opposite direction? For the Psylocke infinite, I use J.jab -> J.Short -> J.Forward -> J.Fierce -> J.Roundhouse. It works, but i think it does push you off eventually. If it does, just try to dash in and launch into an air combo. Or better yet, try that big ass corner combo I posted earlier in my thread. I don't think I've ever tried it against Sentinel. For the Iron Man infinite, I usually skip the Repulsar Blast and just go straight into a Proton Cannon. If you vary the timing a bit on the last set of infinite, you can set it up so that the PC will hit on it's formation and knock them into it. It's way easier IMO. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 10:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy What up Fluffy, a question for ya. Not sure if I am the only one but I mostly have been playing MVC2 on DC with a few (very few) trips to the arcade when I get time. Its to the point where I can beat my friends with my eyes closed. Usually 5-7 friends can't get me to give up my arcade stick at home. How does one make the transition from dominating on the console to loosing at tourney play. I'm no expert but I'd really like to play in tourneys and loose to the real competition Are tourneys more for testing skill or learning? How do I get out of the console comfort zone? Thanks, T. Diddy I like the way you phrase it; the transition from dominating on the console to loosing at tourney play. Lol. That does happen most of the time. I already posted some advice for someone when he asked me about his first tourney. But, I'd say just get out more. Go to the arcade more often and meet the people there. Don't just go and play. Strike up some small talk. Get to know people so when you do go to a tourney, you aren't surrounded by strangers who think you're a scrub. You're surrounded by friends who think you're a scrub All kidding aside, it's always good to go meet new people and get a different perspective on the game. As I said before, tourneys are social events. And the more people you are familiar with, the more comfortable you'll feel. Playing at home and playing in a tourney are two totally different feelings. It does take some adjustment to get used to the pressure as well. But, the sooner you start, the sooner that anxiety will be gone and you'll get better for it. Also, just stay abreast about what's going on in the SRK forums. There is a lot of good stuff on here. There's probably even more garbage, but there is quality material. Jinmaster's thread, Duc's thread, and just about every Viscant post is full of useful information. And if you have any questions about things or heard of something and want to know what it is, then ask on a thread like this one or make your own if you feel it's a broad topic. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 10:59 PM: Re: Runaway Storm quote: Originally posted by Onikage Heyas Fluffy, got two Storm questions for ya. My runaway Storm sucks. Once I get in the air, how do I stay there? I can't be using the right moves, cuz I get thrashed. I saw on the newest vids she had an infinite. Is it practical, and what are some decent setups for it? Well, runaway Storm does two things. It burns time and builds meter. The basic sequence is to SJ, and either air dash or lightning attack up past the top of the screen. You can do fierces once up there to build meter and hold up to descend slower. You can also do verticle typhoons up there too, but they are easily avoidable on the ground. Then, as you start to reach super jump height again, either air dash or lightning attack up again (which ever one you didn't use the first time) and do it again. Once you get back into range of where people can SJ up and hit you, then you need to be careful. Don't throw anything out of you think you're going to get hit. And I don't recommend doing it if you're fighting against BH or Commando assist if you're not experienced at it. As for the infinite, it's one of those sentinel only infinites. It's useful enough, but only on Sentinel. If you ever land a jumping Fierce -> J.Roundhosue on Sentinel, you can go straight into it. Posted by Big Pete Roasa on 04:26:2001 11:00 PM: my team is Blackheart doom and cable, I allways have trouble with sentinal any suggestions on what to do to the big bastard Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:26:2001 11:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp After people have played duc, ricky, valle they say "There on a diffirent level" what do you think people mean by this? Also whenever your watching someone play what are the main things the look for? Certain patterns? How do you figure out there game plan? Is it obvious to you? I look at it this way. Ricky, Valle, and Duc are literally a cut above the rest of us right now. They are fundamentally sounds players (which others are as well) but they just know more about individual strategy and have more experience. I'm not sure about Duc or Valle, but Ricky just has so many gosh darned tricks up his sleeve, it's hard to avoid them all. You pretty much have to know they are coming. The matches I've seen between Duc and Valle are just MVC2 clinics. I would have never known how to fight a Spiral v Spiral match had it not been for their video on SRK. I've learned so much from watching them at SHGL tourneys. I wish I could get down there more often. Watching Duc, Ricky or Valle fight each other is just a site in itself. It's really hard to explain, but you just don't see mistakes when they play. You see outmanuevring and out thinking. It's what MVC2 is supposed to look like. Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:27:2001 01:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL I look at it this way. Ricky, Valle, and Duc are literally a cut above the rest of us right now. They are fundamentally sounds players (which others are as well) but they just know more about individual strategy and have more experience. I'm not sure about Duc or Valle, but Ricky just has so many gosh darned tricks up his sleeve, it's hard to avoid them all. You pretty much have to know they are coming. Could you give us some examples of Ricky's tricks and gameplay? Exampls always make things clearer for me. Thanks. Posted by *Dp on 04:27:2001 05:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Could you give us some examples of Ricky's tricks and gameplay? Exampls always make things clearer for me. Thanks. Yes, examples would be helpful. You said that Ricky, duc, alex know more about "individual strategy" and "outmanuevring and out thinking" if it's possible could you give a few firm examples? Would you say one out thinking example could be what happened to Rat's iceman? Also about my question below ------------------------------------------------------------ Also whenever your watching someone play, what are the main things YOU or any other "top-player" look for? Certain patterns? How do you figure out there game plan? Is it obvious to you? I'm not sure if you were just avoiding the questions above or whatever the reason may be, but it would help if you did answer them. If you don't want to, that's fine by me it's YOUR thread (thanks for puting your time into it) so if you'd rather not answer the question I'll respect that just say the word and these questions won't be brought up again. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:27:2001 08:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Yes, examples would be helpful. You said that Ricky, duc, alex know more about "individual strategy" and "outmanuevring and out thinking" if it's possible could you give a few firm examples? Would you say one out thinking example could be what happened to Rat's iceman? Also about my question below ------------------------------------------------------------ Also whenever your watching someone play, what are the main things YOU or any other "top-player" look for? Certain patterns? How do you figure out there game plan? Is it obvious to you? I'm not sure if you were just avoiding the questions above or whatever the reason may be, but it would help if you did answer them. If you don't want to, that's fine by me it's YOUR thread (thanks for puting your time into it) so if you'd rather not answer the question I'll respect that just say the word and these questions won't be brought up again. Hey, not that i'm getting defensive or anything, but I had three tests and two papers due today, so sue me if I save all the heavy duty questions for when I have more time. Rat vs Duc: Ok, first off, the name of this right sounds like some wierd Pokemon battle, but anyway...In terms of positioning, you see a lot of good examples from both sides. Rat does a good job of being able to reach positions to hit Spiral out of knives and on the ground keeps Iceman out of WOS traps with Cyke assist as a portable wall. Duc, at the same time, has to keep flinging knives in order to build meter for Cable. The most important choice in this matchup occurs at 75 seconds on the clock. After Duc throws a round of knives, he does not call them again. Instead, he waits for Rat to bring out Iceman again, which he was been doing during rotations of WOS. He calls Iceman and takes a step forward with Cable so he can block the knives and Iceman and potentially hit Spiral as she calls knives. Duc reads this, and waits for the next Icebeam, which comes, and variable counters to Cable and cancels that with a quick AHVB. At the time, Rat was trying to cover his Iceman assist, so he throws a grenade with Cable, which is the turing point in the match. Had he not thrown the grenade, the match would have went different. I think Duc would have still won, but Rat's Cable went from 85% life to <20%. Big difference. Duc had no meter left, and all he really had to do was call helpers and SJ to force Rat to do something. Eventually, or should I say inevitably at this point, he would get chipped to death and it would be only Cyke left. Another important point in this fight, Duc decides that Rat's Cable is still a threat and calls Sentinel. Rat, seeing how Cable hasn't SJed to throw a grenade, thinks he can AHVB Sentinel to death. In all reality, he could have. Had I been able to make that decision, I would have (I probably would have lost too). Rat, after spending two levels, didn't get the job done, and has two levels left. Instead, he waits for his opportunity to variable counter Cyke in and tries a last ditch effort to save Cable. At this point, had his Cable blocked the AHVB from Duc, the match would be very different. The match is still not over, as Rat is literally within one landed super of killing each character. He should have built meter with Cyke (or tried to at least) while Duc was jumping around without any. He had opportunities, but Duc kept throwing grenades to where Rat was going to SJ to and was forced to block them. Rat also didn't manuevre well enough to get around it. Grenades, beams, J.fierces, Spiral assists all contributed to keeping Cyke grounded. Rat really didn't have much option and tried to rushdown with his crippled Cable AAA, which died upon meeting Sentinel Ground assist. Too bad he didn't kill Sentinel when he had the chance. Duc eventually wins due to timout. Good match on both sides, Rat having his opportunities and Duc making a few, but only marginal, mistakes. Now, here's where the "a cut above the rest" fits in. That was the third Duc win in a best of three series. Would you believe me if I told you that all three of Duc's wins had the exact same turning point? That in each one of those matches, Duc pulled out the variable counter to Cable and cancelled it into AHVB flawlessly to kill a character? You think by the third match he would have figured out what was going on when Duc almost literally said "throw something at me". Had Rat waited on it though, Duc would have continued his knife traps in an attempt to do the exact same thing later. In terms of myself personally, I'm fairly patient at times. I play BH/Cable/Cyke and for the beginning part of the match, I just feel out my opponent. I try a few rotations of BH/Cyke and see if my opponent can manuevre himself up to stop me. When I come down, I occasionally try a slight mix up into the infinite or a "jump in with nothing" throw. Once you get someone on their toes (throwing them once or twice is always good for that), they begin to make all kinds of stupid mistakes, and usually end up getting hit into an infinite, which builds me meter. My main goal is to build meter and cuz I got Cable in the backfield, it doesn't matter how much my opponent has if I can variable counter him in for a quick kill. Those are the things I look for. What are the times when I can variable counter Cable in safely? If I super jump up with Bh, does my opponent follow? If he does, will he do it without thinking? Can I make him jump up there without me? If he does, can I get a good angle to get in an Air throw at SJ height? Do I need to throw out an Inferno XX HOD just to keep him on his toes? If you notice, a lot of these quesitons are just distance questions like "Am I at the proper position to do this?" types of questions. Those are all questions you want to get answers to. Once you know how your opponent will react, you can use that to set up things. You need to know how your opponent will move, more importantly, where he'll move into, so you can set up an assist or a throw or attempt a cross-up. In response, he has to realize he's being read and act out of his normal pattern in order to keep from getting worked. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:27:2001 09:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by Big Pete Roasa my team is Blackheart doom and cable, I allways have trouble with sentinal any suggestions on what to do to the big bastard Start Cable. Cable/Bh should stop Sent pretty hard. You can use an AHVB to break up his traps and then use S.Fierces and Bh assist to look him down and build your own meter. Then, you have Doom/Bh after that, and you can readily dispense your meter in chip damage. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:27:2001 05:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Couple more quick questions. 1) Whenever I catch someone blocking Doom's rocks, I usually fire up the ol' FPx4 xx Viper Beam to pin them down, as well as chip a little. In the tourney videos, I see them doing FPx2 (varies) xx Grenade. Is this more effective? I'm more of a keep away player, so chipping is more my thing...but the grenade pins them down some more. I guess the question here is, what's the better way to follow up Cable's S.FP? Use them both, but vary it. Don't just use one over the other. Use one, then the other, then maybe the other again, then switch to the first. Just keep it going. If they jump out, no big deal. Just don't try it against another Cable. He can AHVB that shit. quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada 2) When's the right time to start triangle jumping with Storm? I got nailed with AAA's on a few occasions today, then they followed into HSF, and...yeah. Should I keep the pressure on by triangle jumping constantly and hoping they try to stick out an attack, so I can launch them? Whenever I tried calling out Doom first, Storm and Doom both got nailed after the opponent hit the AAA -> Super. With Storm/Doom, you don't need to triangle jump that much. Just get near the opponent and jump up and dash past him while calling Doom so Doom ends up behind your opponent. Then, you push him into Doom assist. You really don't want to do too much triangle jumping unless you're either really good at it or you don't have to worry about those pesky AAAs. Storm's triangle jump isn't as good as Magnetos, so I wouldn't depend on it. I'd depend way more on Doom assist chipping than triangle jumping. If ever your opponent call the AAA to hit Doom, you can always Hailstorm it. Posted by *Dp on 04:27:2001 07:09 PM: I'm sueing you j/k. Well I didn't know you had terms and HW/tests to study/turn in so I guess I should have took that into consideration. Thanks for the REALLY detailed that was nice and long ^_^ info on the Duc vs. Rat match. Also I know Rat won one of the matches do you remember how? Another thing, was Rat doing the Aircombo into a cancelled icebeam or ice rock qcf+k into a artic attack in the tourney? Well I have a new team of Iceman/Cable/Sent. The thing is I'm not sure on what to do when people do simple things like call doom and jump behind me. If I push block doom I'll still get chipped by rocks. So say I'm playing and someone that has cable/doom and they jump behind me while calling doom and do a air VB to keep me in place for the second rep. of rocks. So what can I do to punish cable or the assist with anyone of my characters in? It seems that whatever I do will get countered. If I try to do something and the opposing cable has 3 meters and I get hit by the second rep. of dooms rocks (I get hit while he's jumping behind me with doom rocks) that's peace out right there for whatever character I messed up with because I was trying to punish him or not blocking the right way. So all in all is it worth the risk? To try and punish or make up the block damage? Or do you thing I should not let myself get in the situation in the first place. I just don't like the fact that he can get a free 10% blockdamge and there's doesn't seem like there is a whole lot I can really do about it. Well I'm thinking about changeing my team again to spiral/iceman/cable spiral to replace Sent. But who would you say wins cause I've heard spiral CAN win, but majority of the people seem to think that Sent. wins hands down. So who would you say can win? I'm pretty sure it can go both ways but if spiral is more likely to win, what are some basic strats that should be used to defeat Sent? Also I remember I was in a tourny and I had Spiral/Cable/Storm against JW's "JW Mcnay is cool" here on srk.com I think (the person that won the tourney) Spiral/Cable/Sent. The truth is I was and still am not experienced with the team....I've only used Spiral/Cable/Storm it for a week off, and on. Now in the tourney I got the lead when I has storm and I started to runaway (SJ air dash up fierce punches/typhoons to build meter then when I got low enough lightning attack up, repeat) Now I was doing this against Sent. and it didn't work. When ever I was off the screen he would fly up Fierce (he wasn't predictable with this) punch me unfly and if I was still up there do it again so I could not find a way around that. That's why I dropped storm which is pretty weak on my part I'm not sure why I didn't stick with her. Anyways, what is suppose to be done against Sent. when you have runway storm in? I mean most of the time Sent. is usually teamed up with either Capcom/BH AAA assist. I'm not completly sure why Sent./Capcom or BH duo would OWN storm but from my experience it has to be REALLY hard for storm to runaway if a simple tactic like what JW's was stopping storm my storm from running away. I can only imagine how and why storm would get owned by Sent./BH or Capcom duo until you inform me ^_^ Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:29:2001 04:53 PM: Re: Vs Spiral quote: Originally posted by NanoBoi what are some good teams vs spiral/sent Spiral is really rough to fight against. Mostly, you have to either keep knives off of her or keep yourself out of knife traps. With that premise in mind, the best teams for fighting Spiral would all include either Bh, Commando, Storm or Sentinel. Doom/Cable/BH, Doom/Storm/Sentinel, Cable/Storm/Commando, Strider/Doom/Commando, BH/Sentinel/Commando, BH/Cable/Cyke, Magneto/Storm/Psylocke, Sentinel/Storm/BH and Sentinel/Cable/BH are all teams that have a decent shot at taking out Spiral. They are not all 100% victories, but they do have the equipment to take out Spiral. But, your basic goal should be to more or less keep Spiral from building meter, cuz Spiral isn't necessarily the biggest threat, it's that Cable sitting in the backfield waiting for an opportunity to use that 5 levels of super. If you can keep her from throwing knives, when Cable comes in, he only has 2-3. Doom/BH is very good for this, Sent/BH is ok as well. Strider/Doom IMO is quesitonable, but I've heard from some players that will swear by it against Spiral and others that don't. If Storm is your second character, you can always build up some meter, do a super on an assist, and DHC to Hail Storm when Spiral teleports to save her assist. Posted by Renegade on 04:29:2001 08:46 PM: Yo, fluffy. I'm thinking about joining the rest of EC in using Sent/BH... or at least having a good one on tap when the situation calls for it. My Magneto cannot control matches effectively against most of the top tier characters. And my storm usually ends of trying to typhoon-hail assists and running away instead of rushing down. What my question is... is this. My main worries at my next tournement will be a couple of strider dooms, and a few good cables (not elite... but good). the region isn't very popular with Sent/BH (at least this region). So i'm hedging my bet on it'll do well. Either what can sent/bh do or what character can I bring as #3 to stop those two opponents? The most common characters I see brought with Sent/Bh are Cyke, Cable, Capcom, and Doom. Can Mags or Storm even fit there? Which of the #3's is appropraite for what situation? Basically, I want to beat the Cables and Strider Dooms nice and comfy. (Unfortunatly, some people pick strider doom cable). Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:29:2001 10:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Also I remember I was in a tourny and I had Spiral/Cable/Storm against JW's "JW Mcnay is cool" here on srk.com I think (the person that won the tourney) Spiral/Cable/Sent. JW's handle is TeamDan. He isn't on very often and has like 20 posts(he got an account the same time I did). "JW McNay is cool" is just a friend of his that likes to come here and piss people off. Posted by FluffyXXL on 04:30:2001 08:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Renegade Yo, fluffy. I'm thinking about joining the rest of EC in using Sent/BH... or at least having a good one on tap when the situation calls for it. My Magneto cannot control matches effectively against most of the top tier characters. And my storm usually ends of trying to typhoon-hail assists and running away instead of rushing down. What my question is... is this. My main worries at my next tournement will be a couple of strider dooms, and a few good cables (not elite... but good). the region isn't very popular with Sent/BH (at least this region). So i'm hedging my bet on it'll do well. Either what can sent/bh do or what character can I bring as #3 to stop those two opponents? The most common characters I see brought with Sent/Bh are Cyke, Cable, Capcom, and Doom. Can Mags or Storm even fit there? Which of the #3's is appropraite for what situation? Basically, I want to beat the Cables and Strider Dooms nice and comfy. (Unfortunatly, some people pick strider doom cable). Hmm. I wouldn't recommend Sent/BH, but if you're determined, then play it. However, if you're going to do it, be prepared to make adjustments. Don't just rely on Sent/BH trap. While it is good, it does have issues with, suprise, Cable and Strider/Doom. Sent/BH can beat Strider/Doom, but if Strider ever gets near you, you need a heavy enough anti air assist to take out Doom, and Cable or CapCom (typical 3rd character for Sent/BH) aren't enough. I'll get to this a bit later though. The best teams involving Sentinel and Blackheart (that I've seen at least) are Sent/Cable/BH and BH/Sent/CapCom. IMO, if you can play Cable and BH well, there isn't anything out there that you won't be able to fight against. You have to be really good with the Cable v Cable battle, especially if both of you have full meters. Most people playing Cable now are going to put him second. Only team that you'll really see him first on is Cable/Storm/AAA. Everything else should put him 2nd. Also, remember I do not speak for everyone out there and there are still some rogue people that will do weird things. But, you'll want Cable 2nd to hand other Cables. Also, if you're opponent has Sent/BH and isn't starting Sent (BH/Sent/Capcom for example), you'll also want him on your team to break up the trap later. You have to remember though that a lot of those match-ups are all going to be won and lost due to your Cable, and your Sent/BH is there to lockdown a battery. You don't want to use much (if any) meter with Sent/BH if you're starting it and have Cable in reserve. Sent/BH with full meter should not beat Cable w/full meter. That's important to know from both sides. If you're starting Sent/BH against Cable, remember that you don't want to waste meter and in fact, you want him to AHVB you. That will build more meter for you and keep him from having it. More than likely, you can eat AHVBs (you have to know how much more damage you can take to be aware of this) and switch in almost for free when he has no meter, and you'll have at least 3-4 meters. You're assist can heal, Sent can heal, your opponents Cable is wounded and you got meter to burn. If he switches in, AHVB that shit. Then, guard break that shit. You get the point. As for Strider/Doom, Sent/Bh can win, but it's hard IMO. You need a better AAA (cyke, psylocke, Ken) in order to take out Doom assist at times. Ken is probably the best for this as he takes out both Doom and Strider in Ouro. I would also recommend starting BH in this match-up, as Sent isn't as worthwhile against Strider. BH/AAA is so much better. BH/Cyke is always fun, but won't always win you the Strider/Doom contest. BH/Ken will keep both keep Strider off of you and allow you to build meter. Eventually you'll need to spend all of your meter to chip Strider to death and then you'll be fighting Doom/CapCom with Sent/BH, and that's a fairly decent fight. I would recommend BH/Sent/Ken against Strider/Doom. Another team I mentioned was BH/Sent/CapCom. It functions a lot like the way Bh/Sent/Ken works, but you have a bit more range covered with CapCom assist. This team isn't that great against Strider/Doom, but it has it's merrits, mostly I believe it's a fairly decent team to use against Spiral. It's also an assist punishing team (CapCom does this) and allows you to build meter almost freely and DHC to HSF whenever you feel like doing it. Plus, if you Inferno XX HOD and call Sent assist right before it, it usually does a lot of damage, more than usual. Because Sent seems to push them back and more of the demons from HOD seem to chip. You have BH/CapCom to combo a Inferno XX HOD easily, and still have free reign to build meter if you use it. Don't do that on Cable though. Posted by *Dp on 04:30:2001 11:22 PM: If I wanted to learn magneto what would be some of the basic combos (can only get one Hyper g. MT combo off) I'd need to know? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:01:2001 12:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp If I wanted to learn magneto what would be some of the basic combos (can only get one Hyper g. MT combo off) I'd need to know? I've already posted a lot of basic Magneto stuff (page 1) but I'll say it again anyway. The key to playing Magneto well is not the big combos. It's the positioning and mixups. In all honestly, the big combos will come from playing him more and trying them. If you have a DC, you can practice some of them (although it's hard unless you have good arcade controllers) just for the timing alone. But, you really can't practice against a computer dummy like you can actually going out to the arcade and seeing how people react to certain things. You need to understand when are the best opportunities to attack people. When do you go high? When do you go low? When to throw? Those are the most important aspects of Magneto. Learn the mix things up with triangle jumps, fast dashes, and throws. It's all about positioning, not multiple tempest combos. Once you get the basics down, then you move onto the elaborate non-Hyper Grav Tempest combos and multiple tempest combos. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 05:01:2001 04:03 AM: Hi, I have a somewhat general question: I'm trying out a Cable/CapCom/Cyclops team. I was looking at matchups, and it appears it would be weak to Spiral, and possibly Strider/Doom. I was curious if there was anything else you would think it would be weak against. Also, any suggestions on playing against Spiral with this team would be appreciated. -DFA Posted by CaptainCanada on 05:01:2001 04:21 AM: These questions aren't really about MvC2 itself, but they've been bugging me for some time. 1) Just about all the tourney players I see are in their 20s, and so are a few SRK.comers I see in the arcade every now and then (chiaofucius, w00). I'm starting to think that I shouldn't even bother playing against somebody that much older than I am (I'm 15). Besides Justin Wong, how many top level players are my age? What age do people get into playing competitively? 2) And...execution. I don't have a DC at home, hell, I don't even have a Playstation anymore, so I can't practice combos at home. How can I improve my execution so it isn't so sloppy? I still screw up on dialing combos a lot, and hit Doom/Storm's staple air combo once maybe every 4 times. Is there any way to improve my execution on joysticks? Or is the only way to just keep playing, and it'll come to me? Oh yeah, something else that's been bugging me. Fluff, is "imitations" mispelled intentionally in your sig? :P Edit: Jesus Christ, I misspelled "misspelled." Posted by Defective on 05:01:2001 05:46 AM: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL Thanks for answering my Felicia q's but I have another. Is there a way to uncombo Blackhearts infinite? Maybe I'm being greedy but it only does like half damage before they dizzy. I usually stop before then and Inferno/HoD or tag in a new character but there has to be a better way. I use the Gene Splice to set it up. Can I keep repeating it to make it truly deadly? Gene Splice, Kick Demons, Gene Splice, Kick Demons? Blackheart's infinite seems like an annoying combo more than anything. Posted by CaptainCanada on 05:02:2001 01:59 AM: *bop* Posted by on 05:02:2001 02:06 AM: If you shake the joystick fast and maybe annoy the opponent a bit, you might escape. Posted by Dasrik on 05:02:2001 03:32 AM: Ummm... Blackheart's REAL infinite (eternal sj.rh juggle) will NOT undizzy. If you refer to the ground infinite (rh, walk up, s.rh, repeat) then that's not a real infinite (as it can be shaken out of by a baby). Posted by CoLoNeL on 05:02:2001 04:53 AM: Thanks for the tournment advices fluffy! I didnt do my best but at least i got somewhere between 7th to 10th (or sure which). The comp was great. I didnt see anything eye popping but its just that i need to work more on execution of some harder things (like counter xxx ahvb) and more exprience against human players (where i go regularly, there isnt a great deal of good players). Anyways, im back to using magneto now ( i dumped him during the tournment. Didnt have the confidence to use him). I was reading some of your posts earlier about his throw combos. Ok, 3 things: 1) Im not sure about the timing of the combo where you do: Launch /\ sj. jab, sj.short, sj.strong... RH throw. Im sure that its near the corner only, and its uses are to extend combos and decrease damage scaling. But how do you time the combo (between the dial) in order to get the RH throw in? I have no trouble doing cammy's launch /\ sj. jab short strong... fierce throw. But the magneto's throw combo is kind of werid for me 2) This other combo you have listed: Launch /\ sj. roundhouse xxx airdash D/F, roundhouse throw, etc I have tried to do this combo on cable, a doom, and a juggernaut... But i stil have trouble with this combo. When should i hit the sj.roundhouse? Early or late? Any advices or pointers you can give me? 3) What other wacky (in my terms anyways) magneto combos do you know of? I dont need the basic tempest combos (i already got tons of flashy combinations for non-throw and hypergrav xxx tempest combos). Is there some strange, throw types of combos that do high damage and is hard to escape, but does not include tempest combos? Everyone shakes out of tempest over here all the time (average of 70 percent upon all regulars).... so its less useful than before. Thanks alot... sorry if you misunderstand my questions. Im getting kind of tired here. Ok, check you back later! Posted by Defective on 05:02:2001 06:11 AM: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL I'm talking about the one where you jump, throw Roundhouse demons, airdash, repeat. After about 40 or hits the opponent does that flying "quit trying to bullshit me" thing upward. Basically I want to get more band for my buck. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:02:2001 06:06 PM: Re: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL quote: Originally posted by Defective I'm talking about the one where you jump, throw Roundhouse demons, airdash, repeat. After about 40 or hits the opponent does that flying "quit trying to bullshit me" thing upward. Basically I want to get more band for my buck. There is no way to get out of the infinite short of your opponent screwing up a rotation of it. There is also no way of uncomboing it as well. I believe there is a possiblitity, but you'd have to use a throw assist and combo it again. I know you can combo the infinite off of Anakaris Throw assist, but you'd have to start the infinite without a helper, which isn't likely. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:02:2001 06:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by CoLoNeL Thanks for the tournment advices fluffy! I didnt do my best but at least i got somewhere between 7th to 10th (or sure which). The comp was great. I didnt see anything eye popping but its just that i need to work more on execution of some harder things (like counter xxx ahvb) and more exprience against human players (where i go regularly, there isnt a great deal of good players). Anyways, im back to using magneto now ( i dumped him during the tournment. Didnt have the confidence to use him). I was reading some of your posts earlier about his throw combos. Ok, 3 things: 1) Im not sure about the timing of the combo where you do: Launch /\ sj. jab, sj.short, sj.strong... RH throw. Im sure that its near the corner only, and its uses are to extend combos and decrease damage scaling. But how do you time the combo (between the dial) in order to get the RH throw in? I have no trouble doing cammy's launch /\ sj. jab short strong... fierce throw. But the magneto's throw combo is kind of werid for me 2) This other combo you have listed: Launch /\ sj. roundhouse xxx airdash D/F, roundhouse throw, etc I have tried to do this combo on cable, a doom, and a juggernaut... But i stil have trouble with this combo. When should i hit the sj.roundhouse? Early or late? Any advices or pointers you can give me? 3) What other wacky (in my terms anyways) magneto combos do you know of? I dont need the basic tempest combos (i already got tons of flashy combinations for non-throw and hypergrav xxx tempest combos). Is there some strange, throw types of combos that do high damage and is hard to escape, but does not include tempest combos? Everyone shakes out of tempest over here all the time (average of 70 percent upon all regulars).... so its less useful than before. Thanks alot... sorry if you misunderstand my questions. Im getting kind of tired here. Ok, check you back later! There are a few things that Duc and Ricky do a lot. One thing is to launch, and not follow up normally. instead, wait and then manually SJ and fierce throw. Ricky does this a lot for controlling your positioning especially to keep you in the corner or to put you in there if his back is to the corner. Launch /\ sj. roundhouse xxx airdash D/F, ad.short -> ad.forward, call psylocke, Magnetic Tempest I believe this is a way to get a tempest off without using the hyper grav, thus making it inescapable and allowing you to DHC. You can use Psylocke assist to do that, but I haven't played around with it enough to know it off of the top of my head. I'll mess around with it and get back to you later. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:02:2001 06:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada These questions aren't really about MvC2 itself, but they've been bugging me for some time. 1) Just about all the tourney players I see are in their 20s, and so are a few SRK.comers I see in the arcade every now and then (chiaofucius, w00). I'm starting to think that I shouldn't even bother playing against somebody that much older than I am (I'm 15). Besides Justin Wong, how many top level players are my age? What age do people get into playing competitively? Most people i know of started playing SF around your age. Personally, I started playing when I was 12 (WW baby!), but haven't taken it very seriously until the last 3 years or so. I didn't know about SRK.com, I didn't know about #capcom, and I didn't know about alt.games.sf2 until about then. I actually didn't even have a computer of the internet until then, so my only means of seeing new things was to go to the arcade, and I didn't even know which were the good arcades =P. Don't expect to be an SF savant. Most people that I've seen play fighting games and take it seriously don't begin to peak until somewhere around their third year. That's when you actually start reaching a higher status, and it takes guidence to get that far most of the time. However, with SRK.com, i'm sure it will be a lot easier for people. I know I've learned a crapload of stuff about ST in the past three months, mostly building on the years of experience of the people that post here on SRK.com. quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada 2) And...execution. I don't have a DC at home, hell, I don't even have a Playstation anymore, so I can't practice combos at home. How can I improve my execution so it isn't so sloppy? I still screw up on dialing combos a lot, and hit Doom/Storm's staple air combo once maybe every 4 times. Is there any way to improve my execution on joysticks? Or is the only way to just keep playing, and it'll come to me? You just have to practice more. Honestly, it will cost a lot of money, but try to get to the arcade one day when no one is there and just play against yourself. Use both player sides and practice combos until you have them down. As I said, once you get the basics down, the flashier stuff will come along. But, the fundamentals have to be there. quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Oh yeah, something else that's been bugging me. Fluff, is "imitations" mispelled intentionally in your sig? :P Edit: Jesus Christ, I misspelled "misspelled." No, I just happen to not know how to spell that word. I had a problem with someone trying to impersonate me a while back, spelling my name fiuffyxxl. When capitalized, it looks like FIuffyXXL (FluffyXXL) so I decided to put that there to let people know that I am the real deal. Posted by berynogood on 05:02:2001 07:59 PM: Hey Fluffy, how do you get the most damage out of Anakaris's super where he is in the backround and hits you with his hands? Posted by TimeFlip on 05:02:2001 08:08 PM: I don't think age matters when playing video games. Right now I'm 14 and I'm really good at the game. I mean, I do better than some people at my arcade. It's not the age; It's the skill level Posted by Jinmaster on 05:02:2001 08:29 PM: I wish I could go back to my senior year when I was 17. It would've been so easy to practice back then. Free time helps, but being good just requires some humility and the right state of mind. The other thing you need is competition, if your competition does not meet your level over time, you can't improve yourself. The only reason most people in their 20's are seen at a lot of tournaments is cause we are young and can drive. =) I'm also told that the reflexes you have diminsh pretty hard with age.... so sad. -Micah Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:02:2001 11:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by berynogood Hey Fluffy, how do you get the most damage out of Anakaris's super where he is in the backround and hits you with his hands? Get a good rhythm going with it. Don't mash on buttons, just alternate. If you mash, you get less hits. If you alternate well and have a good steady rhythm, you'll get to the point where you have the best rhythm to do it. Posted by fLoE on 05:02:2001 11:36 PM: fluffy.. why are u such a fruit? =P Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:02:2001 11:47 PM: Team How about any suggestions or commets to my team.... Akuma / Strider / Sakura I can use almost anyone but my favorites are : Captain Commando Ken Ryu Tron-Bonn Cyclops Megaman Psylock Guile Charlie Cable Those are the people im best with.... Posted by TimeFlip on 05:02:2001 11:54 PM: Add Doom and take out Sakura or Akuma...Sakura preferably. Whoever you're better with should stay though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:03:2001 01:03 AM: My masculinity quote: Originally posted by fLoE fluffy.. why are u such a fruit? =P First off Floe, your question isn't an MVC2 question, but I'll answer it anyway. Floe, when you get older, and are less afraid of being criticized as being a homo, you'll begin to realize what true masculinity is. Masculinity isn't just machismo, it is an overall state of complete non-homophobia. You're truly not one with your masculinity unless you can grab another man's ass, call him a sexy bitch and still know you're a heterosexual. Only then will you be completely secure in your masculinity. A lot of people are too afraid of being labeled as gay or queer or fruity. If you ever learn to be more tolerant, then those things aren't negative. They are just a part of the person. Making fun of it or fearing those labels are just a sign of low self esteem. Besides, Jason said he's going to retire after Chicago and someone needs to carry the Team Molest torch. =P Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:03:2001 01:09 AM: Re: Team quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 How about any suggestions or commets to my team.... Akuma / Strider / Sakura I can use almost anyone but my favorites are : Captain Commando Ken Ryu Tron-Bonn Cyclops Megaman Psylock Guile Charlie Cable Those are the people im best with.... As TimeFlip said, i'd recommend having Doom on any team where you'll have Strider. If you aren't going to play Doom, then don't play Strider. I would say put in someone like T. Bonne for the damaging assist or Psylocke for the close rushdown anti-air. If you don't plan and that kind of a game, play Megaman Projectile. The biggest problem I see with that team is when Sakura gets in. You need some kind of assist to cover her front, as her fireballs won't and her rushing move leaves her way to open. T. Bonne would punish assists well. But, if you want pure assist stopping power, play Ken AAA. Nothing can stop it and you can pretty much super jump towards your opponent to cover him. Posted by NanoBoi on 05:03:2001 02:06 AM: how do you do the japanese ironman infinite? down jab down jab superjump jab airdash ..etc. ..what is the timing for it? do you do each command right away or is there small pauses in between certain parts? Posted by CaptainCanada on 05:03:2001 03:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You just have to practice more. Honestly, it will cost a lot of money, but try to get to the arcade one day when no one is there and just play against yourself. Use both player sides and practice combos until you have them down. Hey, I should try that sometime--course, whenever I'm there, there's usually someone who's been dominating for a while. And I'm kinda conservative with money, too. Sounds like a good idea, though. Even if there's always the chance some little kid will come up and start playing. :P On the subject of money...how much do you usually spend a week at the arcade? quote: As I said, once you get the basics down, the flashier stuff will come along. But, the fundamentals have to be there. Right. I've already got the "there is no cheap" mindset, and a decent team 'n tactics...if I could pull off combos every time, I could be a dominator... But back to the thread, I got another question. I just lost to a Psylocke who killed my Doom, then picked off Cable easily, since he had no assists to set up the AHVB. I shouldn't have left Doom in there to get killed, and Cable remaining, but oh well. Since Cable is used in people's teams always with an assist, how do I play Cable Solo (hahe), or one-on-one, if he's the last one left? I can bet this is his weakest game, but any help would, uh, help nonetheless. Posted by powerful on 05:03:2001 06:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL I look at it this way. Ricky, Valle, and Duc are literally a cut above the rest of us right now. They are fundamentally sounds players (which others are as well) but they just know more about individual strategy and have more experience What you mean by sound players? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:03:2001 07:01 AM: iron man infinite solo setup quote: Originally posted by NanoBoi how do you do the japanese ironman infinite? down jab down jab superjump jab airdash ..etc. ..what is the timing for it? do you do each command right away or is there small pauses in between certain parts? It's very fast. The thing to remember is to keep the joystick neutral until the U.Fierce. c.short -> c.strong, let stick go to neutral, then d, u, jab xx air dash -> ad.jab -> ad.u.fierce the jab xx air dash -> ad.jab is all really fast. This is, IMO the hardest part. Practice this in training mode with something like psylocke assist while your in the corner just to simulate the C.strong. Then, work on the whole thing. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:03:2001 07:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Hey, I should try that sometime--course, whenever I'm there, there's usually someone who's been dominating for a while. And I'm kinda conservative with money, too. Sounds like a good idea, though. Even if there's always the chance some little kid will come up and start playing. :P On the subject of money...how much do you usually spend a week at the arcade? [B] Right. I've already got the "there is no cheap" mindset, and a decent team 'n tactics...if I could pull off combos every time, I could be a dominator... But back to the thread, I got another question. I just lost to a Psylocke who killed my Doom, then picked off Cable easily, since he had no assists to set up the AHVB. I shouldn't have left Doom in there to get killed, and Cable remaining, but oh well. Since Cable is used in people's teams always with an assist, how do I play Cable Solo (hahe), or one-on-one, if he's the last one left? I can bet this is his weakest game, but any help would, uh, help nonetheless. He basically dies. A lot of characters own him one on one. Any rushdown should win. You never really want Cable by himself. Even if he has one helper, he has something to put between his opponent and himself. The only thing you can really try to do is throw. His throw priority is still good, and his air throw priority is good too. If you have th lead, try to run and sneak in throws here and there. Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:03:2001 10:58 AM: But back to the thread, I got another question. I just lost to a Psylocke who killed my Doom, then picked off Cable easily, since he had no assists to set up the AHVB. I shouldn't have left Doom in there to get killed, and Cable remaining, but oh well. Since Cable is used in people's teams always with an assist, how do I play Cable Solo (hahe), or one-on-one, if he's the last one left? I can bet this is his weakest game, but any help would, uh, help nonetheless. [/B][/QUOTE] Thats the problem ive seen most... you have to know how to with each person you use and not your whole team to win... Cable alone is still a very big threat and just because you dont have doom to back him up, doesnt mean he cant pull it off... Play keep away as long as you can, use your air lance and viper beam. Learn all his aeral rave combos and learn how to juggle them with hyper viperbeam ( use viper beam in the air, and use it again til you hit the ground) That alone can take out a character pretty fast. Remember that if you use viper beam in the air, you have a less delay time. Also remember timeflip if you think you can pull it off Posted by Adept on 05:03:2001 09:17 PM: I'm trying to get more out of my Juggernaut. I was wondering if it's really possible to connect a head crush immediately after a head crush. I remember seeing a video with Juggy linking the headcrush like 4 times in a row, but it was on servbot. Is this the only character it works on? If not who else can i connect it with. Also if u could explaing the timing in detail, ( like what animation am i looking for ), for when u actually initiate the second head crush, it would be much apprecitated. Thanx. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:03:2001 10:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by Adept I'm trying to get more out of my Juggernaut. I was wondering if it's really possible to connect a head crush immediately after a head crush. I remember seeing a video with Juggy linking the headcrush like 4 times in a row, but it was on servbot. Is this the only character it works on? If not who else can i connect it with. Also if u could explaing the timing in detail, ( like what animation am i looking for ), for when u actually initiate the second head crush, it would be much apprecitated. Thanx. The only other character that I know of that you can hit multiple headcrushes on is Spiral. You can do one, do a Fierce Juggernaut Punch, and cancel that into another headcrush. Spiral is very light and floats a lot, so you're able to hit there. I'm not sure of anyone though. It doesn't work on medium weight characters or above. I'm not sure which small characters it hits. As for other Juggernaut stuff, here 1.) J.Fierce \/ S.Jab -> S.Fierce XX Jab-Juggernaut Punch (FS) 2.) S.Jab -> S.Fierce XX Fierce-Earthquake (2hit) XX Headcrush 3.) C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward -> S.J.Roundhouse 4.) (corner) C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Fierce (FS) -> S.J.Roundhouse \/ C.Short (OTG) -> S.Roundhouse 5.) (corner) S.Jab -> S.Fierce XX Jab-Juggernaut Punch (FS), C.Short (OTG) XX Headcrush 6.) (corner) Fierce throw, J.Jab -> J.Fierce \/ Headcrush 7.) S.Jab -> S.Fierce XX Fierce-Earthquake, Snapback Posted by Adept on 05:03:2001 11:25 PM: Good stuff, thanx man. Posted by teammember001 on 05:08:2001 06:20 AM: I don't know if you already saw some posts from us, fluffy. We're a bunch of guys that plays MvC2 together and we made lots and lots of questions at Duc's thread, but people were angry at us because we were asking too much, so from there we just read the topics. But now we can't let this wonderful thread die, so we will give to you several questions coming from jin's thread. Please help us. If we're bothering you with too many questions(as you will see) just tell and we're gone. But I (and the guys) think that it can be useful to everyone. Thank you very very very much for all your effort and help on the forums. Your answers are the bests ever. here goes mine question: by jinmaster: “You shouldn't do most of that when Cable is blocking. You need to approach the situation differently. If you have Psylocke or Clops AAA, dash in with short-short and mash the AAA when the first comes out. It doesn't matter if he blocks or not, you have time to superjump and cross over. Secondly, you should approach a cable with an AAA assist by superjumping up and forward, and air dashing downward at a later time so you kind of fall right on top of Cable with a choice of what side you want to attack on. When you dash in, wether it be on the ground or on a triangle-jump, just throw out shorts and go for throws/helper calls. If you are fast on triangle jumps, you can do a 2-3hit jump in you can then go for a launch. Hope that helps. “ How to beat it w/ cable/cyc? thanks Posted by teammember002 on 05:08:2001 06:28 AM: Yeah, I'm a big fan of your job too. Here's mine: by jinmaster: “I think you would benifit from watching the tourney vids of Spiral play. Teleports, quickdrops+helper calls, etc, all help you call knives. Any time Cable SJ's you get to call knives on the ground. You can super jump up and if he goes up with you, teleport above him, then call knives. You can also make Cable block a helper, as long as the helper stuns him long enough. Once you have knives, just call helpers and teleport until the Cable makes mistake, and go do your metamorph combo on him. Otherwise, make him block and assist by calling one and teleporting, and then starting your knife trap. Also, every time you launch someone you get a free knife call after you throw them forward. “ how to beat it with my cable/cyc or sent(I use cable/storm/cyc or spiral/cable/sent) by jinmaster: “You need to learn to fly-cancel. Don't do standing or C.fierce on Cable unless you plan on follwoing up with a BH call or a HSF. On a turtle Cable, dash forward and SJ up and mash roundhouse just as you leave the ground for a quasi-overhead attack that usually hits. Then cancel that roundhouse into flight, call an assist, roundhouse over Cable again, Cancel flight. Then do it again or do something else like a chip trap with HSF. “ And what about this? How can I beat it with my cable?thanks Posted by teammember003 on 05:08:2001 06:34 AM: by fluffy: “. I basically broke the trap with a wake-up DP (Oldskool!). Basically, if you're ever knocked into the corner against Strider/Doom, you can expect to block a Doom assist, which you usually can't call an assist agianst, unless you've got some kind of godly timing to call the assist and block at the same time. It was more of a suprise to me than anything, and it's not a major gamebreaking strat, it's just a little trick I tried that worked. “ what’s this thing about calling assist and blocking at the same time? It can be done for real?thanbks Posted by teammember004 on 05:08:2001 06:39 AM: Ok, here goes a question that you answered to wm: “– What can I do to avoid be guard broked with cable. If I AHVB after block their fist attack, hey just have to block and attack me after my AHVB(I can’t block because I’m in jumping animation). If I don’t AHVB, they just do a normal gb against me. You can still counter AHVB. You'll land before he gets a chance to AHVB you, so it's still safe. “ I understand the question differently. I think the opponent waits for the counter AHVB(do a HP and nothing more), so after block the AHVB he does his AHVB(which can’t be blocked) or if it’s another character do a j. jab(cable blocks and ahbs to be safe), blocks the ahvb(or even be under it) and launch. How to reverse this situation?thanks Posted by teammember005 on 05:08:2001 06:42 AM: by jinmaster: “Megaman is played with megabuster traps and rockball traps with helper assists. His J.fierce does a lot of damage to both helpers and main characters. He really has no safe outlet for his meter other than an assist-covered beat-plane. His main use is as a battery and he is somewhat good at stopping Magneto and stopping Cable from AHVB. “ Mainly the part “stopping cable from ahvb”. Why? How to counter it?thanks Posted by teammember006 on 05:08:2001 06:48 AM: by jinmaster about use cable/storm/aaa or storm/cable/aaa “You should only start Storm against another Cable “ Why? Posted by battlefield on 05:08:2001 06:54 AM: If I have a clean hit with Commando, what should I do? Low short, low fierce, kk special or corridor, sword special? Posted by oORYUOo on 05:08:2001 07:20 AM: whats the most hits servbot can do in a combo? Posted by oORYUOo on 05:08:2001 07:23 AM: oh and i need some strats for storm. Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:08:2001 11:29 AM: If you get a chance for a clean hit for captin commando... to an areal rave starter ( HK ) and then immidately use captin sword for a nice amount of dmg.... Or you could do an aircombo if you know how... Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:08:2001 04:39 PM: teammembers For some reason, i think you guys are pretty bogus. I'll answer your questions, but I want you to answer some of mine. First off, how many of you are there? Where are you guys from? Why is it that all of your posts are literally minutes apart? Posted by fei long on 05:08:2001 07:36 PM: sups advanced strats for a storm cable doom team advanced strat for a storm doom sent team would a strider storm doom be a good strider dooom team? and how would you get to attack cable with cyclops and capcom assist on his side? regularly i use a storm cable cyclops butits not fun anymore but anyways thanks in advance ~!payce out!~ Posted by fei long on 05:08:2001 07:38 PM: wow fluffy seems pissed ! what did they do to you? Posted by Tuff Daddy on 05:08:2001 07:53 PM: Damn right he's pissed and rightfully so. I haven't been to this thread in awhile sad what that guys is doing but I have some real ?'s for the Fluff master. OK I have been trying to use Magneto for about 2 weeks. He's just not for me. What, if any are some alternatives for rushdown? Storm? Cammy? Rouge? None of them compare to Mags. Does rushdown = Magneto all the time? Also in there a such thing as an in game guard break? Ex. Catching the opponent during a normal jump, pause, then AHVB? Not the guard break from a death or snapback. Just normal jump in game. Thanks in advance. T. Diddy Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:08:2001 08:29 PM: There isnt any real guard break, but there are ways to get around the guard.... for instance take strider.... When you use the orbs and they are blocking them, throw in a lowkick to break their mid block, or do a small jump with a down slash to break their low block... Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:08:2001 08:32 PM: oo00oo CAN I BE TEAM MEMBER NO. 582??? CAN I CAN I? Posted by MAGUS1234 on 05:09:2001 12:59 AM: felicia strats hey whats up fluffy! uhh somebody was asking about felicia strats and tips well heres a cool one, play mag felicia psylocke,when you connect a clk clk +psy antiair do clk cfk hypergrav mag tempest then please help me! super 100% on anyone!! theres an unmashable version too its clk cfp sjfk airdash down forward lk lk(land)jump up forward lk+psyantiair lk tempest to please save me.the anti air pops them up then down into the tempest without the dhc it does 90 vs cable!! somebody asked for ingame gaurd breaks meet someone on a normal jump with cable and throw a lp wait for ungaurd animation and ther you go.you can also do ahvb at the peek of jump pointed up(the beam)when its done hope for the animation of ungard and strike.this works for jfp too hey heres my question do you have any iceman doom tips and i was wondering if the big ice block can be ahvb'd or does it cancel it? ohh ya how should i play mag cammy?? i hella like the way she plays but cant get her feel thanks for the help! Posted by teammember007 on 05:09:2001 03:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL teammembers For some reason, i think you guys are pretty bogus. I'll answer your questions, but I want you to answer some of mine. First off, how many of you are there? Where are you guys from? Why is it that all of your posts are literally minutes apart? We're 16 guys from Canada, but only 10 with logs here. We post usually all together from my home(or teammember 2 home). So, in fact, when we want to ask about the game we think about a while to select the things we want to know the most from top players(like you or Duc). We passed the entire weekend trying to practice the jinmaster's thread stuff, and sevral questions came out(we have the thread printed). So, after we put our questions on paper, I type them and send it to srk, one for each member. We have still lots of questions, and would be really cool if you help us. Anyways, if you think we're asking too much, we can stop anytime you ask. Just read your thread it's a huge learning experience and that's why I would like to at leats bump it if it's not at the top. Plus, i think the questions can be interesting to other members too, so I'll be glad if you help(I'm alone right now, but you can be sure that we are all your fans). Sorry for bothering you and everyone that got offended. Posted by luigi on 05:09:2001 03:59 AM: When should I teleport(using Spiral) against a spiral/cable/sent team, with either of them on point? Thanks Posted by cc on 05:09:2001 04:01 AM: I read viscant said that cable /clops vs cable/x the cable/clops can call clops to the other cable block, sj. and do HP grenade. I saw duc doing it against mag and storm on the vid. My problem is, if I keep doing this, I can't AHVB if clops hits, because I'm too high and doing a grenade. So, if this tactic is the best, wouldn't be better use Ken. I can AHVB at sj. level because Ken puts them high and it has more range/priority, even beating clops teams. What you think about this? Posted by powerful on 05:09:2001 04:03 AM: What moves should I avoid playing my cable/spiral/sent or cable/storm/cyc against a team who can counter to ahvb with their own cable? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 05:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember007 We're 16 guys from Canada, but only 10 with logs here. We post usually all together from my home(or teammember 2 home). So, in fact, when we want to ask about the game we think about a while to select the things we want to know the most from top players(like you or Duc). We passed the entire weekend trying to practice the jinmaster's thread stuff, and sevral questions came out(we have the thread printed). So, after we put our questions on paper, I type them and send it to srk, one for each member. We have still lots of questions, and would be really cool if you help us. Anyways, if you think we're asking too much, we can stop anytime you ask. Just read your thread it's a huge learning experience and that's why I would like to at leats bump it if it's not at the top. Plus, i think the questions can be interesting to other members too, so I'll be glad if you help(I'm alone right now, but you can be sure that we are all your fans). Sorry for bothering you and everyone that got offended. It's no problem. I'm very suspicious in my old age now, as I've had problems with people on SRK.com before. A dead give-away for BS screen names is multiple SNs with same IP and no profiles. I was just a little skeptical when I see something like that. I'll answer any questions you guys have now. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 06:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember001 by jinmaster: “You shouldn't do most of that when Cable is blocking. You need to approach the situation differently. If you have Psylocke or Clops AAA, dash in with short-short and mash the AAA when the first comes out. It doesn't matter if he blocks or not, you have time to superjump and cross over. Secondly, you should approach a cable with an AAA assist by superjumping up and forward, and air dashing downward at a later time so you kind of fall right on top of Cable with a choice of what side you want to attack on. When you dash in, wether it be on the ground or on a triangle-jump, just throw out shorts and go for throws/helper calls. If you are fast on triangle jumps, you can do a 2-3hit jump in you can then go for a launch. Hope that helps. “ How to beat it w/ cable/cyc? I'm a little unsure about this, but I think the match-up is Magneto/Psylocke vs Cable/Cyclops, right? If you're playing against Magneto with Cable, you have to be very patient. First off, don't just sit there. If at all possible, jump backward. You don't always want to stick something out, but just keep moving so he can't throw you. You just want to keep mobile, so he can't get a good angle in on you. You also want to try to detect his pattern. Most Magnetos will try to super jump and air dash towards so they come down on top of you, which is your weak spot. Once he comes down near you, he's right where he wants to be and will have to stay near you. He can try to throw, triangle jump with an overhead, bait your assist, or whatever. You don't want to get put into that position and when you do, you want to get away. You can do a few things. Mostly, SJ up and do SJ.Fierce XX grenades and jab-viper beams to keep him from getting in on you. You basically want him away from you and blocking. Hitting him is even better, but the key is just to keep a certain amount of space between Cable and Magneto. You also want to use your safe moves while SJing like grenades and jab-viper beam. Jab VB isn't safe, but it's so fast it's often hard to react to, thus making is safe. Sometimes if you're on the ground it can be useful to throw out a random Jab-Psimitar if you think he's going to air dash while SJing. So long as you're doing stuff and he's just trying to move in on you, you're ahead in the game cuz of the meter situation. You also want to try to work a Cyke assist here and there. Keep in mind that Magneto has slightly lower stamina, so it usually only takes three AHVBs to kill him off of Cyke assist, provided he's take a bit of damage here and there from the other random stuff you're throwing at him. You'll probably end up trying to kill a helper, so try to get good at getting the timing to uncombo the AHVB by jumping with the second AHVB and also manual jumping the third one so that the assist will recover in the air, but still can't block, so the next AHVB will not scale damage like it was comboed. Assist killing 101. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 06:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember002 Yeah, I'm a big fan of your job too. Here's mine: by jinmaster: “I think you would benifit from watching the tourney vids of Spiral play. Teleports, quickdrops+helper calls, etc, all help you call knives. Any time Cable SJ's you get to call knives on the ground. You can super jump up and if he goes up with you, teleport above him, then call knives. You can also make Cable block a helper, as long as the helper stuns him long enough. Once you have knives, just call helpers and teleport until the Cable makes mistake, and go do your metamorph combo on him. Otherwise, make him block and assist by calling one and teleporting, and then starting your knife trap. Also, every time you launch someone you get a free knife call after you throw them forward. “ how to beat it with my cable/cyc or sent(I use cable/storm/cyc or spiral/cable/sent) I posted about this already earlier in a response to Nanoboi's question about Spiral/Cable/Sentinel. This question is kinda vague, so if you have anything more specific, ask away. quote: Originally posted by teammember002 by jinmaster: “You need to learn to fly-cancel. Don't do standing or C.fierce on Cable unless you plan on follwoing up with a BH call or a HSF. On a turtle Cable, dash forward and SJ up and mash roundhouse just as you leave the ground for a quasi-overhead attack that usually hits. Then cancel that roundhouse into flight, call an assist, roundhouse over Cable again, Cancel flight. Then do it again or do something else like a chip trap with HSF. “ And what about this? How can I beat it with my cable?thanks This is actually an easy match for Cable. So long as you have meter, you can break up any Sentinel/Blackheart trap. You also have to keep him from flying on you, but you can do that with SJ.Fierce and cancelling to Jab-VB or grenades. If the SJ.Fierce is blocked, throw a roundhouse grenage. If it isn't, throw a short one and do a quick release (release it as soon as it leaves your hand, so it explodes above your head) so he can't has to fly lower and can't get directly above you. That's the worst spot for you to be in as he can hit you with a F.Roundhouse and you can't really do anything. Just don't be baited into using your meter when he SJs and fly cancels a couple of times. Also, read Spiderdan's post about the fly cancel rules to know when he can and cannot block things. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 06:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember005 by jinmaster: “Megaman is played with megabuster traps and rockball traps with helper assists. His J.fierce does a lot of damage to both helpers and main characters. He really has no safe outlet for his meter other than an assist-covered beat-plane. His main use is as a battery and he is somewhat good at stopping Magneto and stopping Cable from AHVB. “ Mainly the part “stopping cable from ahvb”. Why? How to counter it?thanks HVB on the ground. A lot of people won't be thinking that, but ground beams wreck Megaman. Cable, Sentinel, and Iron Man are the three worst fights for Megaman due to ground beams. Most of the time, you won't get to hit a helper and if Megaman is anywhere near you, he can combo you, so watch out. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 07:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember006 by jinmaster about use cable/storm/aaa or storm/cable/aaa “You should only start Storm against another Cable “ Why? Storm's major asset to this team is runaway. Especially if you're fighting a Spiral team, you want Storm 2nd so you can do an instant DHC to Hail Storm when you AHVB a helper and Spiral teleports. Basic Viscant tactic. You'll want to build up a few meters and then try to get a lead by AHVB and DHC to Hail Storm and run away. If you start Storm, you can't really run away (no lead) and it's often dangerous to Hail Storm some characters, namely Sentinel and Spiral. You can start her on Cable, and any other character that can't SJ up there with you so you can build meter and eventually get Cable in. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 07:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by oORYUOo whats the most hits servbot can do in a combo? With or without assists? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 07:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy Damn right he's pissed and rightfully so. I haven't been to this thread in awhile sad what that guys is doing but I have some real ?'s for the Fluff master. OK I have been trying to use Magneto for about 2 weeks. He's just not for me. What, if any are some alternatives for rushdown? Storm? Cammy? Rouge? None of them compare to Mags. Does rushdown = Magneto all the time? Also in there a such thing as an in game guard break? Ex. Catching the opponent during a normal jump, pause, then AHVB? Not the guard break from a death or snapback. Just normal jump in game. Thanks in advance. T. Diddy If Mags isn't for you, try Bonerine/Sentinel. Good rushdown team IMO and uses basic rushdown like high priority attacks and speed. Doesn't require as much manual dexterity as Magneto, but is still rushdown with a little trap element to it. You can do in game guard breaks off of normal jumps. It's usually harder to do, as most people don't randomly jump towards. Some assists help this this really well. Almost any character can guard break with Psylocke assist just by hitting J.Jab and Psylocke AAA at the same time. Psylocke AAA in general is really good for guard breaking. Cable can solo guard break with J.Jab XX AHVB, but it's dependant on your opponent jumping towards you and not sticking out a higher priority attack (not likely). Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 06:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by luigi When should I teleport(using Spiral) against a spiral/cable/sent team, with either of them on point? Thanks You only want to teleport when you know it's safe. If your opponent won't be able to hit you and you won't be teleporting into an assist, it's safe. You also have to gauge whether or not you need to teleport. Sometimes you do it to escape traps or get above your opponent at SJ height to call knives. You can also use it to avoid guard breaks and to punish moves with lots of lag, like Viper Beams or Sentinel Force drones. Posted by Chris F on 05:09:2001 09:07 PM: I followed Jinmaster's thread as well, and he mentioned Spiral being able to teleport to avoid Storm's hail but he didn't explain which one? Also perhaps a dumb question but what does Sent do vs. the hailstorm as well? Competition is weak here so I wouldn't know. Thanks. Posted by NanoBoi on 05:09:2001 11:04 PM: yo fluffs...can't you teleport out of a hailstorm with spiral? like two teleports or something? cuz i thought i saw it before...but maybe it was my imagination...o and any news on svgl tourneys? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 11:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by Chris F I followed Jinmaster's thread as well, and he mentioned Spiral being able to teleport to avoid Storm's hail but he didn't explain which one? Also perhaps a dumb question but what does Sent do vs. the hailstorm as well? Competition is weak here so I wouldn't know. Thanks. You can trade a Sentinel S.Fierce or a Fierce-Rocket Punch for the Typhoon to prevent a Hail Storm. If she doesn't throw out the Typhoon, you get a free hit. You can also try to throw Short-Sentinel Force drones at her, but it's a long shot. Honestly, if can avoid trading, just block it. If you called a helper, do a S.Fierce or a Rocket Punch and take the hit. You'll take less damage than her. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 11:34 PM: quote: Originally posted by fei long sups advanced strats for a storm cable doom team B-Cable/Y-Storm/B-Doom -- build a lead with AHVB XX Hail Storm, run away and force people to rush you down so they jump into your Doom assist while you cross them up with dashes/airdashes. You can kill most helpers with three AHVBs and a Hail Storm, so try to build to four meters and fry a helper. You can do it earlier if you have been hitting the helper with Doom assist when it comes out. quote: Originally posted by fei long advanced strat for a storm doom sent team B-Doom/A-Storm/Y-Sent -- Same princible, but build a lead with Photon Array DHC Hailstorm. You also have Sentinel assist to control the ground. Play carefully against Cable. quote: Originally posted by fei long would a strider storm doom be a good strider dooom team? and how would you get to attack cable with cyclops and capcom assist on his side? regularly i use a storm cable cyclops butits not fun anymore but anyways thanks in advance ~!payce out!~ I don't think that any Strider/Doom team is better than Strider/Doom/Commando. Strider/Doom/Sentinel is also good as the Strider/Sent combination of animals and drones is total ground control and would build mad amounts of meter. I don't think you'd need Storm, cuz if you start Doom and DHC to Strider, you won't need Storm runaway. What's the point of runaway if you're chipping to death with Strider/Doom? As for the cable/cyke, just try to keep them contained is the middle of the screen. If you do, you're free to teleport on him and he can't really stop you. You can get near him and call Doom and teleport and if he calls Cyke, it will hit Doom and you'll still be on the other side and still free keep him in the middle of the screen. Just be careful when Cyke isn't on screen. As long as you keep a certain amount of space between you and Cable, you can always teleport and won't get hit by Cyke assist. And punish Cyke when he comes out. If you can, try to catch him in Ouro behind you or something. A lot of times, you can block him, call Doom, activate Ouro, and dash under him to sandwich him between you and Doom for some pretty bad damage. You still have to be careful of Cable though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:09:2001 11:55 PM: Re: felicia strats quote: Originally posted by MAGUS1234 hey heres my question do you have any iceman doom tips and i was wondering if the big ice block can be ahvb'd or does it cancel it? ohh ya how should i play mag cammy?? i hella like the way she plays but cant get her feel thanks for the help! I would suggest Iceman/Sentinel instead of Iceman/Doom. I've been playing this team a little more lately and it can get pretty nasty. I also don't know of any specific Iceman/Doom strats either. Mag/Cammy would be like any other non-Psylocke Magneto team. You can combo into Cammy, but can't do much from there. You really have to have a good Magneto in order to play this team well IMO. You have to know more of his solo combos and be able to do them. Just be patient and wait out assists and call yours to hit his and then either SJ or rushdown to try to prevent any damage to Cammy. You will beat most teams without heavy AAAs though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:10:2001 12:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by cc I read viscant said that cable /clops vs cable/x the cable/clops can call clops to the other cable block, sj. and do HP grenade. I saw duc doing it against mag and storm on the vid. My problem is, if I keep doing this, I can't AHVB if clops hits, because I'm too high and doing a grenade. So, if this tactic is the best, wouldn't be better use Ken. I can AHVB at sj. level because Ken puts them high and it has more range/priority, even beating clops teams. What you think about this? Just have a careful eye. If you call Cyke, you'll see Cable throw up his guard before he gets hit, so that's a clear sign for you to SJ and throw the grenade. If it doesn't look like he's in a good position to do so (like when you try to cross him up with Cyke assist) you can wait to see if it hits or not. The second you see Cable blocking, SJ up and throw the grenade. But, wait until you see the guard go up. If not, then you'll see cyke hit and that means it's time to AHVB. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:10:2001 12:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by powerful What moves should I avoid playing my cable/spiral/sent or cable/storm/cyc against a team who can counter to ahvb with their own cable? Depends on the assists. Mostly, any move that will hit on the ground that will leave you open. You can actually counter a AHVB doing that. Wait for the last second, variable counter, and AHVB before Cable recovers. Spiral/Cable will be hit harder than Spiral/Sent by the counter to AHVB. Just be careful. WOS trap with Cable can be countered probably. I don't know for sure, but no one around here uses Spiral/Cable/Cyke anymore. Cable/Y-Storm doesn't have to worry about is as much cuz S.Fierce X4 with Y-Storm keeps you covered fairly well from AHVB. Cable usually gets hit when he tries against Cable/Y-Storm. Just don't stick out any frivilous projectiles or beams that can be blocked on the ground that aren't followed up my something that will cover the area that Cable will be in to AHVB. Posted by *Dp on 05:11:2001 06:52 AM: I would suggest Iceman/Sentinel instead of Iceman/Doom. I've been playing this team a little more lately and it can get pretty nasty. Could you explain? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:11:2001 10:38 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp I would suggest Iceman/Sentinel instead of Iceman/Doom. I've been playing this team a little more lately and it can get pretty nasty. Could you explain? Mostly, I like the team dynamic between Iceman/Sentinel. I've been playing Iceman/Sentinel/Commando. It's very good for beating any team that does not have a good way to chip Iceman. Cable/Storm/Psylocke, Blackheart/Cable/Cyclops and possibly Magneto/Storm/Psylocke are the main teams that I see having a weakness against Iceman. Iceman backed with Commando assist means that you can bait out AAAs and call Commando to punish, while at the same time SJing with a fierce-icebeam to cover your helper. Iceman with Sentinel assist is solid ground control. S.Roundhouse+Sentinel assist -> Jab-Icebeam, SJ, Fierce-Icebeam does decent chip and is again safe with lots of control. His Ice Fist is also a move I don't think anyone utilizes. Mainly, it does more damage when you land punches, it chips when they are blocked, and it increases your prioirty cuz the ball is so darned big. It also sets up very easy and damaging Arctic Attack combos. Basic air combo with the Ice Fist is S.J.Jab -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Arctic Attack. It does way more than the normal four hit arctic attack combo does. You can also do massive damage with a non-Ice Fist AC by doing an Ice Avalance before the Arctic Attack. It looks like S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Ice Avalance XX Arctic Attack. You're goal with this combo is to cancel as soon as Iceman puts his hand up. The Ice Avalance will slow your decent and allow you to hit with more of the Arctic Attack. If you do it too slow, the Ice Avalance will form and it won't combo. More than likely, your opponent will just fall past you and you won't get the extra hits. Let me tell you though, this is insanely difficult to pull off. I've only done it a couple of times. It is harder than comboing a HyperGrav XX Tempest combo, which I used to think was the most difficult cancel in the game. There is no delay in the Ice Avalance XX Arctic Attack cancel and any mistiming means you get jacked hardcore. There are some other things I'm working on with Iceman/Sent, but I'm still in the researching phase. I'll post about it more later. Posted by Crash on 05:11:2001 10:48 PM: I'm having some trouble fighting a spiral team that is not like the typical knive trap team. This guy plays with Spiral, Doom, Ironman. Basically he Calls out dooms photon assist or ironmans repulsor and then teleports directly above my characters head. I'm not a great player and I'm sure there is a very easy way around this I just can't find it. The assist prevents me from jumping out or launching or basically just attacking. He continues to assist teleport the whole match. I either get chipped to death or get caught in a combo from spiral above. Any help would be appreciated. Posted by TimeFlip on 05:12:2001 01:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Crash I'm having some trouble fighting a spiral team that is not like the typical knive trap team. This guy plays with Spiral, Doom, Ironman. Basically he Calls out dooms photon assist or ironmans repulsor and then teleports directly above my characters head. I'm not a great player and I'm sure there is a very easy way around this I just can't find it. The assist prevents me from jumping out or launching or basically just attacking. He continues to assist teleport the whole match. I either get chipped to death or get caught in a combo from spiral above. Any help would be appreciated. I'd recommend Cable/CapCom AAA for this. You should call CapCom when Spiral teleports above you, then catch his assist with an AHVBx3. Posted by teammember007 on 05:12:2001 07:45 AM: Thanks for being so kind, Fluffy. I have a hard question for you. I learned to do counter into ahvb, and it really can even hit another cable after his ahvb. But, when the other cable is ahvbing very close to the ground, or even doing a normal vb, I can't hit him before he lands. Does the landing animation makes this moves safe against the counter into AHVB or it's just me being too slow. thanks a lot Posted by teammember008 on 05:12:2001 07:50 AM: by jinmaster: "It's hard when Cable has Cyke, I suggest being less predictable when calling doom and teleporting. Remeber that you have other options like double-jumping over Cable while calling doom. You can also throw a kitty and call doom and then teleport, he shouldn't be able to AHVB you if you keep changing up. You can also get close and wait for Cyke to come out, then call commando and teleport in response. I suggest mixing it up a bit more. " how to play with cable/cyc or spiral/cable/sent against this strider/doom tactic?thanks Posted by teammember009 on 05:12:2001 07:56 AM: jinmaster answering bomberman: ""Bomberman, - Around here, lots of guys has pasted the last month practicing cable's variable counter (psimitar) to ahvb. So, they're doing it all the time. My question is if I can do any cable/spiral traps or even cable sequences with grenades and vbs against the other characters they play without getting risk of eat a counter into ahvb x 3? Any strategies to be safe against it?" reply: Pay attention to how much meter they have, obviously ater they get 3 or more meters you will have to adjust. You can still spiral wall, just make sure you start to block after the counter, as the scimitar will get hit by knives but he will be juggled and can AHVB before he hits the ground sometimes. If you are Cable, you pretty much play they way you normally do, just be careful when you do those fierce/helper/gernade traps. " Why cable needs to be careful with helpers and grenades? And is this real safe with spiral? I think cable can counter ahvb the last sword and catch spiral reloading, am I right? Posted by teammember010 on 05:12:2001 07:58 AM: My question is about how to protect my assists. I play cable, usually with Cyclops. Everytime I call cyc, I sj. and do LK grenade if it's blocked, doesn't matter who is my opponent. If cyc connects, I do ahvb, of course. First, I would like to know if this is real the safe way to protect Cyclops against any other top tier in the game(I'm afraid that people might maneuver around the grenade) and, if there are others, when to use each one. Now, I'm trying cable/commando and cable/sentinel teams. My trouble is that I don't know how to protect these assists. If I do the same that I do for Cyclops, when I came down they aren't out of the screen yet(which it's a big problem, specially against another cable. So I would like to know what the top tourney players do to protect commando and sent assist using cable gainst the top tiers. And how to protect cyc too, if my way isn't the best one. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:12:2001 08:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL long ass post on Iceman What are good counters to Iceman based teams and tactics, aside from having a good chipping assist? Thanks. Posted by *Dp on 05:12:2001 10:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander What are good counters to Iceman based teams and tactics, aside from having a good chipping assist? Thanks. Why are you do worried about iceman all of a suddden? Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:12:2001 11:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Why are you do worried about iceman all of a suddden? hehe who's worried? After seeing Rattana play and reading this I think i might go back to Iceman. However I like to hear the cons with the pros. Posted by *Dp on 05:12:2001 05:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander hehe who's worried? After seeing Rattana play and reading this I think i might go back to Iceman. However I like to hear the cons with the pros. Bah, no offense Darth, but people in general are just FOLLOWERS I mean fuck. Someone:"OMG, OMG, OMG!!! Duc now uses Spiral/Cable/SENTINAL look at me, look at me I can do the wall of swords and AHVB JUST like DUC. I must be 'UP THERE' with Ricky,Duc,Valle now, OMG I'm good" I mean it's just that people have to actually see someone do good with a character (Win a tourny) then and only then is that character REALLY good and a potenial tourny character. So now sense Fluffy has been messing around with the team of Iceman/Sent./Capcom everyone might start using iceman or the whole team. Posted by on 05:12:2001 06:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Bah, no offense Darth, but people in general are just FOLLOWERS I mean fuck. Someone:"OMG, OMG, OMG!!! Duc now uses Spiral/Cable/SENTINAL look at me, look at me I can do the wall of swords and AHVB JUST like DUC. I must be 'UP THERE' with Ricky,Duc,Valle now, OMG I'm good" I mean it's just that people have to actually see someone do good with a character (Win a tourny) then and only then is that character REALLY good and a potenial tourny character. So now sense Fluffy has been messing around with the team of Iceman/Sent./Capcom everyone might start using iceman or the whole team. I know, it's one thing to play a team, but it's another to win with it. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:12:2001 07:28 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Bah, no offense Darth, but people in general are just FOLLOWERS I mean fuck. Someone:"OMG, OMG, OMG!!! Duc now uses Spiral/Cable/SENTINAL look at me, look at me I can do the wall of swords and AHVB JUST like DUC. I must be 'UP THERE' with Ricky,Duc,Valle now, OMG I'm good" I mean it's just that people have to actually see someone do good with a character (Win a tourny) then and only then is that character REALLY good and a potenial tourny character. So now sense Fluffy has been messing around with the team of Iceman/Sent./Capcom everyone might start using iceman or the whole team. Hey, no flame wars on my thread. Just to address the point, a lot of people won't believe the potential of something until they see it win a tourney. A lot of people need to see proof of something literally in front of them before they'll believe it. The best thing to do is just try to keep an open mind. You can look to top players for guidance, but don't write anything off until you try it. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:12:2001 08:34 PM: hehe ok no flames But so what does give Iceman/Sent/Capcom problems? Sounds like a promising team that would be good for tournaments. Posted by TimeFlip on 05:12:2001 08:53 PM: I've been trying to get Doom's air combo like: Launch/\Jp,Sk,Sk,Dash Df, throw with Hk into Photon Array. I can't get the super to come out. Which direction do you Photon Array? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:12:2001 09:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip I've been trying to get Doom's air combo like: Launch/\Jp,Sk,Sk,Dash Df, throw with Hk into Photon Array. I can't get the super to come out. Which direction do you Photon Array? It only works in the corner. You photon to which ever direction you're facing when you throw. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:12:2001 09:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by teammember010 My question is about how to protect my assists. I play cable, usually with Cyclops. Everytime I call cyc, I sj. and do LK grenade if it's blocked, doesn't matter who is my opponent. If cyc connects, I do ahvb, of course. First, I would like to know if this is real the safe way to protect Cyclops against any other top tier in the game(I'm afraid that people might maneuver around the grenade) and, if there are others, when to use each one. Now, I'm trying cable/commando and cable/sentinel teams. My trouble is that I don't know how to protect these assists. If I do the same that I do for Cyclops, when I came down they aren't out of the screen yet(which it's a big problem, specially against another cable. So I would like to know what the top tourney players do to protect commando and sent assist using cable gainst the top tiers. And how to protect cyc too, if my way isn't the best one. Try to super jump towards so that you'll land on the other side of the opponent. You don't even have to throw a grenade to do this. If you're opponent decides to hit your helper, you're in the perfect position to hit the point character. Posted by Sho 2 on 05:13:2001 03:54 AM: Can you tell me who is considered Top Tier and Second Tier before I ask you something? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 06:09 AM: [ quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Can you tell me who is considered Top Tier and Second Tier before I ask you something? Top Tier Blackheart Cable Cyclops Dr Doom Magneto Sentinel Spiral Storm Strider 2nd Tier - although still disputed Dhalsim Iceman Iron Man Juggernaut Mega Man Omega Red Ruby Heart War Machine Disputed Anakaris BB Hood Cammy Colossus Hulk M Bison Psylocke Silver Samuri Venom Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 06:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember009 jinmaster answering bomberman: ""Bomberman, - Around here, lots of guys has pasted the last month practicing cable's variable counter (psimitar) to ahvb. So, they're doing it all the time. My question is if I can do any cable/spiral traps or even cable sequences with grenades and vbs against the other characters they play without getting risk of eat a counter into ahvb x 3? Any strategies to be safe against it?" reply: Pay attention to how much meter they have, obviously ater they get 3 or more meters you will have to adjust. You can still spiral wall, just make sure you start to block after the counter, as the scimitar will get hit by knives but he will be juggled and can AHVB before he hits the ground sometimes. If you are Cable, you pretty much play they way you normally do, just be careful when you do those fierce/helper/gernade traps. " Why cable needs to be careful with helpers and grenades? And is this real safe with spiral? I think cable can counter ahvb the last sword and catch spiral reloading, am I right? What he meant was if you're Cable and the opponent has Cable in the back. If you do a pattern like S.Fierce x4 XX Grenade, you can be hit by the counter to AHVB on the last bullet. He will hit you as you throw the grenade out. On Spiral, I wouldn't recommend trying to counter to AHVB much. Spiral/Sent will be throwing enough objects at you to hit you at just about every opportunity for you to counter. You can counter just to get Cable in if you want though. But, you could have switched into all of that stuff as well and been fairly safe. If Spiral is doing the WOS trap, you can switch into the knives at will and get in almost free. Once Cable is in, hopefully you have enough meter to kill Spiral and whatever helper she's using. You can break up the trap with most AAAs and AHVB when she reloads. It's hard to see, but it's possible. Posted by *Dp on 05:13:2001 06:24 AM: "Hey, no flame wars on my thread." Yo, it's cool I didn't mean to start a flame war, I just wanted to make a point that many people AREN'T open minded and need to think/do things for themselves. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 06:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember008 by jinmaster: "It's hard when Cable has Cyke, I suggest being less predictable when calling doom and teleporting. Remeber that you have other options like double-jumping over Cable while calling doom. You can also throw a kitty and call doom and then teleport, he shouldn't be able to AHVB you if you keep changing up. You can also get close and wait for Cyke to come out, then call commando and teleport in response. I suggest mixing it up a bit more. " how to play with cable/cyc or spiral/cable/sent against this strider/doom tactic?thanks Your whole goal with Cable/Cyke is to always jump backward against Strider/Doom. When you hit the corner, SJ out and try to go the other way. You don't want to stay near the middle or Strider will just keep teleporting on you and you'll be stuck. If you keep jumping back, you'll always be able to avoid him while he's teleporting. Keep jumping backward and be conservative with cyke assist. Only use it when Strider is going to block it or be hit. If you ever hit a Cyke assist, AHVB that shit. Posted by Sho 2 on 05:13:2001 06:36 AM: Okay, good Venom amd Sam are there. I was wondering could you me how to use Venom effectively on point and against top tier and the team/order that he is good in. I have been wanting to use Venom since a while ago and by reading through your thread today and asking for help. I am surprised find that he plays like Amingo and there he is Second Tier. For SS, I just need some help on how to use the swords effectively. Thanks. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 08:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Okay, good Venom amd Sam are there. I was wondering could you me how to use Venom effectively on point and against top tier and the team/order that he is good in. I have been wanting to use Venom since a while ago and by reading through your thread today and asking for help. I am surprised find that he plays like Amingo and there he is Second Tier. For SS, I just need some help on how to use the swords effectively. Thanks. Venom is a lot better than a lot of people think. I put him up there as questionable only because everyone I know that's seen him played well agrees that he's useful. However, he still suffers greatly against the top tier. AAAs do mess up his game a little, but not much. He does not fair well against Cable, Spiral, Strider and Magneto. He totally excels against rushdown, both as an assist and on point. Honestly, I think he's more useful as an assist. Venom Fang assist is so good at controlling the space directly in front of you. It's like having both Psylocke and Cyclops' AAA in a way. It's not invincible, but it will beat Doom AAA. It also is really good against other assists, as it makes the other assist fly up into the air when it hits, so your opponent can't all it as frequently. I did say that Magneto beats Venom on point, but Venom assist can help beat Magneto IMO. IMO, his best team members are Sentinel, and either BH, Cable, or Commando. The teams I use mostly are Bh/Sent/Venom, Venom/Sentinel/Commando and Venom/Cable/Sentinel. You can use Venom in place of AAA for BH. It also helps Sentinel against rushdown. When Venom is in, there is a basic pattern you can use. S.Fierce+Assist, Fierce-Venom Fang. With Sent assist, you can use the S.fierce XX Fang for building meter and to cross over your opponent. Then, you are free to do what you want, but I'd wait for an assist then Jab Fang it. Then, you can do a S.fierce rotation again. Also learn to throw a lot. Sneak a throw in and combo a C.Short -> C.Forward XX Venom Rush. This is his bread and butter combo. Learn it well and use it a lot. One more thing, Venom's snapback is his S.Fierce. It has almost half the screen's range, and you can use it frequently to catch opponents and snapback whoever you want in. You can also play games like doing S.Fierce and snapbacking as your opponent retaliates. Just be creative. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:13:2001 07:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander But so what does give Iceman/Sent/Capcom problems? Sounds like a promising team that would be good for tournaments. Hello? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 07:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Hello? Damn it. I responded to this yestarday, but I was having problems with the SRK forums, so I guess it didn't stick. I'll respond to this in-depth later. I'm kinda busy today. Strider/Doom Storm/Doom Magneto/Doom Spiral/Sent Sent/BH Those are the teams I'd question using Iceman against. I would also be wary of using Iceman against Sentinel assist in general. Most of the time, you can't afford to block it, so you'll be SJing. It can be highly repetitive and your opponent can use it against you. Use him against BH/Cable/Cyke Cable/Storm/AAA Magneto/Storm/AAA - (maybe) Silver Samuri - (you'd think the opposite holds true, but it doesn't.) any team without Doom or Sent assists Posted by *Dp on 05:13:2001 08:56 PM: What is suppose to be done against Sent. when you have runway storm in? I mean most of the time Sent. is usually teamed up with either Capcom/BH AAA assist. I'm not completly sure why Sent./Capcom or BH duo would OWN storm but from my experience it has to be REALLY hard for storm to runaway. Posted by DarthSalamander on 05:13:2001 09:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Damn it. I responded to this yestarday, but I was having problems with the SRK forums, so I guess it didn't stick. I'll respond to this in-depth later. I'm kinda busy today. Strider/Doom Storm/Doom Magneto/Doom Spiral/Sent Sent/BH Those are the teams I'd question using Iceman against. I would also be wary of using Iceman against Sentinel assist in general. Most of the time, you can't afford to block it, so you'll be SJing. It can be highly repetitive and your opponent can use it against you. Use him against BH/Cable/Cyke Cable/Storm/AAA Magneto/Storm/AAA - (maybe) Silver Samuri - (you'd think the opposite holds true, but it doesn't.) any team without Doom or Sent assists There is a bug or some feature on the forums where if you post and then make another post it will sometimes replace the original post. I take it Iceman can just beam his way through any of Silver Samurai's stars, correct? Looking forward to the in-depth response. Thanks for the reply. Posted by Jinmaster on 05:13:2001 09:31 PM: Storm can run away from that team but it's not as effective as rushing them down. When you run, just try to air dash when you see BH's icon come out and carefully build more meter. To get in, mix up between dashing straight in and super jumping and iar dashing from differnt points in your sj. Posted by Sho 2 on 05:13:2001 10:49 PM: Um... I need A LOT of help on this question. How does BB Hood play? I'm asking this because she is THE ONLY person I haven't played with yet. Can you be really discriptive? Thanks . Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:13:2001 11:25 PM: Iceman vs Silver Samuri quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander There is a bug or some feature on the forums where if you post and then make another post it will sometimes replace the original post. I take it Iceman can just beam his way through any of Silver Samurai's stars, correct? Looking forward to the in-depth response. Thanks for the reply. No. It's even worse than that. Iceman can jab them. I think every character has some basic attack that will outright negate the ninja star. The real reason I say Iceman owns Samuri is because with an assist like Sentinel (Doom works here too) you can just repeatedly call the assist and Fierce Ice beam and SS will never get to you. He can try to burn super and might hit your helper or make you block, but there really isn't anything he can do once you make some space. He's just too friggin' big. Iceman does really well against all of the big guys. Hulk suffers the same fate. Juggie could try to Headcrush, but would run into an assist and would be wasting meter. Posted by Dasrik on 05:13:2001 11:56 PM: Hey Fluffy. I have two rather in-depth questions for you... (1) Team Analysis. The team that I'm using right now is Blackheart/Doom/Jin. I'm getting very serious about this team and planning to play them seriously. The focus of this team is combination keepaway/rushdown, and on stopping triangle jumpers. BH uses the jumping fierce and Doom to keep people at bay and to close opponent's options. Eventually, most people (ie. rushdown Magnetos and Storms) resort to trying to get on the other side of Blackheart. This is where Jin comes in - his assist does two things really well - defend the area around him (thus acting as cross-up) and blowing away assists. Blackheart can combo Inferno XX HOD very easily with B-Jin - easier than with B-Commando (albeit probably not as damaging), and he covers BH rushdown TOO well... Doom's purpose on point is to hold down the fort. The Doom/BH trap is fortified by using fly cancelling to call Jin should the enemy get directly beneath Doom. But again, Jin acts as a rushdown fortifier from mid-screen, blowing away a lot of assists and giving Doom more of a window to rush. Jin is more of the shaky point. I actually have more success with Jin on point than with Captain Commando, partly because he can do a lot of damage quickly, and also because of the Blodia Punch on helpers glitch. But I could use some more tips on how to use Jin if push comes to shove. Jin is like Commando on the team - he's used primarily for his assist, which is good enough, I feel, to justify his presence. Weaknesses (that can't be alleviated by starting Doom) would be appreciated. I think this team is good for neutralizing the Magneto threat. The most that Mags players have been able to do is a Magnetic Wave - once they get in close, there are no guarantees because when I'm free I call Jin and then retreat. I'm aware of the problem runaway Storm poses - how bad IS it? Thanks. And sorry for the long-ass post. 2) I'm trying to find an alternative team to get a hang of - one that can do what BH/Doom/XXX can't. I've been trying my hand at Spiral/Cable/Sentinel but that's turned out badly because I have a half-ass Spiral and a terrible Cable. But is there anything else that might work? (Anything with Blackheart on it would be nice. ;-) End. Posted by Irish on 05:14:2001 12:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Jin is more of the shaky point. I actually have more success with Jin on point than with Captain Commando, partly because he can do a lot of damage quickly, and also because of the Blodia Punch on helpers glitch. Okay, now I may be out of the game scene for the most part. But I'm getting back into it slowly. But what exactly is the Blodia Punch on helpers glitch. I must have missed that somewhere along the lines. Irish Posted by TimeFlip on 05:14:2001 01:25 AM: Would you explain the Tron/Sentinel trap please? Posted by Jinmaster on 05:14:2001 03:10 PM: Irish, The thing about the blodia punch is that when it connects with a helper it will continue to push through and hit a blocking point character through his block. Another example of this is with spiderman.. do a max spider on a helper and if there is a blocking point character behind the helper then they will get snatched up. Posted by Jinmaster on 05:14:2001 03:24 PM: Dasrik, I think your biggest threat is a cable/bh team. Cable/BH does well vs doom/bh combinations in general. If magneto is giving you problems, a team of BH/cable/Commando would give you most of what you need to stop him. If you find yourself having touble blocking Magneto triangles, just use J.fierce and commando to keep him off of you. Usually mag will try to randomly beam you, which is inferno-hod/cable-tech bait. Posted by Dr. Deelite on 05:14:2001 03:25 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster Irish, The thing about the blodia punch is that when it connects with a helper it will continue to push through and hit a blocking point character through his block. Another example of this is with spiderman.. do a max spider on a helper and if there is a blocking point character behind the helper then they will get snatched up. Just a quick side-note about this...the reason this works is because these attacks cause flying screen when they hit, whether they hit a helper or a point, and during flying screen, no one can block. So, cause flying screen on a helper, you hit the point for free. Anytime Jin is on one side of the screen, their point is on the other, and their assist is in between, Blodia Punch, and you'll hit the point as well. It's essentially a ground guard break. I didn't know that worked with Max Spider, though. Supers I know of that it works with are Blodia Punch and Magnetic Shockwave. One other note - their point has to stay on the ground and continue blocking. If they super jump before contact, they won't get hit. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 06:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Um... I need A LOT of help on this question. How does BB Hood play? I'm asking this because she is THE ONLY person I haven't played with yet. Can you be really discriptive? Thanks . I don't use BB Hood that much, but mostly what you want to do is throw things at people while calling assists and making your opponent block. It works with most ground assists. BBH/Sent is probably the best. But, I usually use Juggernaut/Hulk/BBH for the glitched Juggie and the lethal triple team. I normally use a slight rushdown pattern with BBH starting with C.Short -> C.Forward. If it hits, do S.T.Fierce XX Cruel Hunting or Triple Team. If they block, you can DC.Roundhouse XX Jab-Missle. I use Jab missles a lot mostly cuz it's slow and if someone jumps at you while your throwing it, it acts as anti-air. You can also use it to stop Strider's teleport, or at least push him off. BBH is a decent battery, so you can use her with other characters as outlets or you can put together a team that has a good triple team. BBH/Cable triple team is pretty good. You could play a team like BBH/Cable/Psylocke. Or maybe you need the Sentinel assist, so BBH/Cable/Sent. You also might consider Storm. Her Gamma assist will probably work well and it will also give you the HailStorm in the triple team, or you can just combo a Cruel Hunting and DHC to Storm and run away. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 07:58 PM: Jin quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Hey Fluffy. I have two rather in-depth questions for you... (1) Team Analysis. The team that I'm using right now is Blackheart/Doom/Jin. I'm getting very serious about this team and planning to play them seriously. The focus of this team is combination keepaway/rushdown, and on stopping triangle jumpers. BH uses the jumping fierce and Doom to keep people at bay and to close opponent's options. Eventually, most people (ie. rushdown Magnetos and Storms) resort to trying to get on the other side of Blackheart. This is where Jin comes in - his assist does two things really well - defend the area around him (thus acting as cross-up) and blowing away assists. Blackheart can combo Inferno XX HOD very easily with B-Jin - easier than with B-Commando (albeit probably not as damaging), and he covers BH rushdown TOO well... Doom's purpose on point is to hold down the fort. The Doom/BH trap is fortified by using fly cancelling to call Jin should the enemy get directly beneath Doom. But again, Jin acts as a rushdown fortifier from mid-screen, blowing away a lot of assists and giving Doom more of a window to rush. Jin is more of the shaky point. I actually have more success with Jin on point than with Captain Commando, partly because he can do a lot of damage quickly, and also because of the Blodia Punch on helpers glitch. But I could use some more tips on how to use Jin if push comes to shove. Jin is like Commando on the team - he's used primarily for his assist, which is good enough, I feel, to justify his presence. Weaknesses (that can't be alleviated by starting Doom) would be appreciated. I think this team is good for neutralizing the Magneto threat. The most that Mags players have been able to do is a Magnetic Wave - once they get in close, there are no guarantees because when I'm free I call Jin and then retreat. I'm aware of the problem runaway Storm poses - how bad IS it? Thanks. And sorry for the long-ass post. 2) I'm trying to find an alternative team to get a hang of - one that can do what BH/Doom/XXX can't. I've been trying my hand at Spiral/Cable/Sentinel but that's turned out badly because I have a half-ass Spiral and a terrible Cable. But is there anything else that might work? (Anything with Blackheart on it would be nice. ;-) End. 1.) A tactic Jinmaster came up with a while ago for Jin/Doom as repeated drills while calling Doom for some pretty hefty chip damage. Once you get your opponent into the corner, it's hard for them to get out. They will need the heavy anti-air to hit both Doom and Jin off. Other than that, try to figure out exactly how the Jin Cyclone combos. I know it combos off of a launcher, but for some reason, I won't all of the time. It may have something to do with distance, but I'm not sure. One thing that you can't overlook is the Sentinel threat. Sentinel is very good against BH, especially without Commando to take him out of the air. Sent can fly and avoid Jin assist and still pressure you with shorts and fierces in the air. You can't do much to take him down as all the moves you have that can do it are so slow his Short will beat them. BH/Commando will also be a problem. I've been playing more people using BH on point now and I have come to the conclusion that BH/Commando rapes BH/not-Commando almost for free. You're also going to have problems against Cable starting. BH doesn't do a good job against him and Doom/BH is just an ass matchup. You're best bet would probably be Jin starting, but I wouldn't count on it. You could get creative with Bh assist and SJing drills though. As long as you can bait the AAA and not get AHVBed at the same time, you might be able to work Cable into the corner and chip him with drills and Doom. Then, SJ to avoid the AAA (since you know he's mashing on that button) and try to repeat. Could work. Let me know if it does. 2.) BH/Doom/Commando. BH/Commando is a good combination for taking out Sentinel and also works well on Spiral. Then again, Doom/BH is good against Spiral too. Doom/Cable/BH is also good. If you don't want to play Cable though, you have to use Sentinel. Sent/Doom/BH is one of my old teams. If you wanted to start BH though, do BH/Sent/Doom so you can build meter and then DHC to sent and chip with sent/BH until you have no meter, then try to get close to fly and drop Doom assists on your opponent for the kill. My Sent advice though, if you're going to use the meter to chip, try to see if you can bait out an AAA first. If you know you can't, then don't worry and try to chip. If you can, learn to uncombo the HSF. It goes like this, Fierce-Rocket Punch XX HSF, C.Fierce XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX HSF, C.Fierce Fierce-Rocket Punch. That's usually enough to kill right there. If it's not, then you might need a third meter. Hey, you can always be trendy like me and play BH/Venom =P Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 08:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip Would you explain the Tron/Sentinel trap please? Honestly, I don't know. I don't play Tronne much on point, and I don't play her at all with Sentinel. I would imagine it would involve using Sentinel assist to cover a move with recovery or start-up lag. I could imagine her doing a ground chain and either doing the rush drill right after you call sentinel or calling sentinel during the chain and shooting out a Servbot launcher. Other than that, I don't know about a specific trap with T.Bonne/Sent Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 08:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander There is a bug or some feature on the forums where if you post and then make another post it will sometimes replace the original post. I take it Iceman can just beam his way through any of Silver Samurai's stars, correct? Looking forward to the in-depth response. Thanks for the reply. Strider/Doom - It chips Iceman. Plain and simple. There also isn't any inherent advantages in having Iceman fight Strider/Doom. The only viable tactic I see in this fight is calling helpers to keep Strider off of you then SJing up with Fierce-Icebeams. If strider doesn't teleport, you make him block the beam for more chip. If he does teleport, you will probaby be hit from behind with an air combo, which also gives him another chance to get close to you and call Doom when you both land. Spiral/Sent - The combination of Spiral knives and Sent assist can be bad. Even if Spiral doesn't get a good WOS trap going, the Sent assist is going to be a thorn in your side. Add that with the fact that if Spiral anticipates any Icebeams, she's free to teleport on top of you. Iceman doesn't have any good tools to get out of knife traps. In order to win he has to not be put in them. Sent/BH - Once again, just too much for Iceman to deal with. It is possible to fight, especially since you have Commando. You can wave dash (yes micah, Iceman can wave dash) under Sent drones like everyone else can to get close enough to call Commando. But, you have to protect Commando if your opponent blocks him. if you SJ to Fierce-Icebeam, Sent can SJ and fly. Right there, he can do damage to you and then go to the ground to try to control you from full screen. Random Rocket Punches also hurt cuz Icebeam doesn't pierce Sentinel's Armor so the Rocket punch comes out regardless of if Icebeam hits. Storm or Magneto/Doom - Storm and Magneto are fast enough with Wave dashing to place Magneto where ever they want to around you. Also, you can't do many ground beams to them because they can punish you in your recovery because of the air dash. Sent assist and Commando don't help much once Doom hits the floor. You have to SJ up, which again gives them the option of going after you or just waiting under you for you to land on top of Doom assist. Cable not on point - Be wary of Cable in the backfield. Any time you do a ground Icebeam the point, there is an opening for your opponent to counter to Cable and AHVB you and your helper if you called it to cover you. Three AHVBs will usually kill an almost full Iceman, and two will do the job at around half life. Add one to that for the additional level needed to counter, and you know when you have to start being really careful. You can use this to your advantage though if your Iceman has enough life. Since Sentinel will be able to take 3 AHVBs and not die, you just keep calling him to try to make your opponent bite before they have 4 levels. You can also do this with Commando, and then switch into Sentinel for the remainder of the match to let Commando heal and chip with Sent/Iceman. Posted by Dr. Deelite on 05:14:2001 10:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You can wave dash (yes micah, Iceman can wave dash) One question, for anyone, really - I didn't think Iceman could. I don't play him seriously, but I wavedash a lot with everyone save Iceman and BH, being that I'm under the impression that they can't. With BH, it's obvious, and with Iceman, I've tried a few times, been unsuccessful, and assumed it not possible. Do you just have to do it really early, to avoid his dash recovery, or what? EDIT - okay, I just tested this, to ease my curiosity. Unless I'm mistaken, Iceman CAN'T wavedash using the normal method (crouch cancelling into PP command dash), but he CAN wavedash using the "Tekken" method (crouch cancel, double-tap forward again, or fireball motion to crouch cancel and tap forward again). This does allow him to wavedash, and it is full screen. News to me. In any case, I don't think you can use the normal method, and that's what I was checking. That is all. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 10:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite One question, for anyone, really - I didn't think Iceman could. I don't play him seriously, but I wavedash a lot with everyone save Iceman and BH, being that I'm under the impression that they can't. With BH, it's obvious, and with Iceman, I've tried a few times, been unsuccessful, and assumed it not possible. Do you just have to do it really early, to avoid his dash recovery, or what? EDIT - okay, I just tested this, to ease my curiosity. Unless I'm mistaken, Iceman CAN'T wavedash using the normal method (crouch cancelling into PP command dash), but he CAN wavedash using the "Tekken" method (crouch cancel, double-tap forward again, or fireball motion to crouch cancel and tap forward again). This does allow him to wavedash, and it is full screen. News to me. In any case, I don't think you can use the normal method, and that's what I was checking. That is all. Jinmaster was telling me that the other day and I tried it. He can wavedash, but it does have a low success rate. It was much easier for me to wavedash backward than forward, but it does work. The timing is a bit different, you can't do it as fast as for other characters, but it does work. Posted by Dr. Deelite on 05:14:2001 10:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Jinmaster was telling me that the other day and I tried it. He can wavedash, but it does have a low success rate. It was much easier for me to wavedash backward than forward, but it does work. The timing is a bit different, you can't do it as fast as for other characters, but it does work. Okie. I just figured he couldn't since I can do it consistently with anyone else (except BH, once again). Of course, I find he can. Try the method I described - works everytime. I can't think of a real reason that cancelling to the command dash is iffy with Iceman...it just is. Of course, you knew that. In the situation you described, dashing under drones, you wouldn't want to be iffy. Try the other method - works really well for Iceman. And no one else. Very odd. Oh well, Marvel 2 is messed up. Posted by cheese_master on 05:14:2001 11:00 PM: To Fluffy or Jinmaster... whoever has time to answer first. I got a couple questions. First... I have started to use my IM, Cable, Capcom team more often nowadays. My IM has improved to the level where is can start the infinite off Cable and Capcom assists and can guardbreak into it. I find this team is excellent against Spiral. My IM/Capcom rushdown is great to prevent her from getting swords... and I can easily escape the wall of swords trap. All in all... I have IM for meter building. Cable/Capcom is a standard team... but my first question comes in at should I use IM's projectile assist (which assist Cable in chipping traps) or should I use his repulsor blast (which does great damage and allows me to punish assist without using meter... in other words allows me to avoid baiting and what not... it also sets up for the AHVB)? My next question involves weakness for this team. I know Doom is one (mainly because his assist stops CapCom at close range)... and the other one I find that can be irritating is Iceman (you may be shocked). The problem I have with Iceman is with IM starting and going to build meter... Iceman can easily chip away at IM and get a lead. Then once Cable comes in... I have major problems stopping Iceman's turtling... because I have no effective way to chip him. My only real hope is outsmarting them (i.e. counter into Cable's AHVB * 3 or killing off an assist). So my question is what is an effective technique for IM to rushdown Iceman (who usually has either Doom or Cyclops with him)? And also what to do about Doom's assist other than call Cable assist out (who's energy I want to conserve)? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:14:2001 11:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dr. Deelite Okie. I just figured he couldn't since I can do it consistently with anyone else (except BH, once again). Of course, I find he can. Try the method I described - works everytime. I can't think of a real reason that cancelling to the command dash is iffy with Iceman...it just is. Of course, you knew that. In the situation you described, dashing under drones, you wouldn't want to be iffy. Try the other method - works really well for Iceman. And no one else. Very odd. Oh well, Marvel 2 is messed up. The best thing to do is normal dash once, then wave dash. That's the easiest and more reliable way to make it full screen with Iceman. Posted by Dr. Deelite on 05:14:2001 11:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL The best thing to do is normal dash once, then wave dash. That's the easiest and more reliable way to make it full screen with Iceman. That's what I'm saying, too. I'm just saying that, with Iceman, the actual wavedash itself is more reliable if you use another double tap instead of the command dash with both punches, since that usually gets you a crouching fierce. Posted by Irish on 05:14:2001 11:37 PM: Oh ok. Didn't realize that the Blodia Punch super worked that way as well. I knew about the Maximum Spider but not of the other. Well, thanks for answering my question. Irish Posted by Sho 2 on 05:14:2001 11:46 PM: Can anyone tell me why Jill is rated so low? I mean Jin isn't Top or Second Tier but people still use him. Can someone tell me why she is bad because want to see if could work around it and make her a better Character. If anyone has strats with her I'd be thankful. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:15:2001 02:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Can anyone tell me why Jill is rated so low? I mean Jin isn't Top or Second Tier but people still use him. Can someone tell me why she is bad because want to see if could work around it and make her a better Character. If anyone has strats with her I'd be thankful. It's not going to happen and here's why. If you look at the top tier characters I listed earlier (Blackheart, Cable, Cyclops, Doom, Magneto, Sentinel, Spiral, Storm, Strider) and the 2nd tier characters (Dhalsim, Iceman, Iron Man, Juggernaut, Megaman, Ruby Heart, War Machine) you'll start to see a few trends. Namely, air dashes, teleports, flight, double jumps, invincible moves and damage potential. Jill has absolutely none of the above. At best, Jill is a standard rushdown character. She has high priority. However, she has nothing that allows her to get in on people. She has not 8-way air dash like Magneto and Storm. She has no position controlling moves like teleports. She has not invincible moves Doom rocks, Storm typhoon or Ruby pillar. Her assists do not radically change the game like BH Inferno or Doom rocks. She has nothing like AHVB x 4, or repeated HSF. She has nothing that distinguishes her from any other rushdown character. Comparing her to the best non-tiered rushdowns (Wolverine, Cammy, Psylocke), she does not have the ground speed of the three; she does not have the damage potential of Wolverine or Cammy; and she does not have the useful assists that Cammy and Psylocke have. She has slow zombies, slow dogs, slow birds, and a slide that can lead to an OTG (and thus be rolled). She has a counter which is useless against projectiles and beams. She has the charge move, which can't be comboed guaranteed and prevents you from pushblocking the entire time you charge it. Need any more reasons? Posted by teammember001 on 05:15:2001 06:01 AM: How to beat a Doom/Cable/BH using Spiral/Cable/Sent? My Doom/cable/Bh opponents play the same style as Nyte’s video(sj. FP+cable assist, photons and that kind of things, of course they’re not as good as Nyte). I saw Jinmaster recommending start cable against that team, why would I do that? Thanks Posted by teammember002 on 05:15:2001 06:03 AM: How to play with Cable, having “spiral a and sent c” OR “cyke b and storm a as assists”, against a perfect fly cancel sentinel(usually with BH, commando or both)? Sent keeps exactly above cable crossing sides and cancels flight before any ahvb positioning, it’s very hard to beat it, what should I do? Posted by teammember002 on 05:15:2001 06:04 AM: One more thing: A friend told me that I can ahvb everytime he starts flying and I get the angle, because if he cancels the flight I can gb him with another ahvb. Is this true? Thanks Posted by ss on 05:15:2001 06:07 AM: I read you saying that Storm can punish a blocking captain sword with short typhoon, hail. Is this possible at long range too? Posted by teammember003 on 05:15:2001 06:09 AM: by fluffy or jinmaster(I’m not sure, the page I printed it’s a little wet right now ) “I suggest you come up with a way to avoid his anti-spiral tactic of SJ grenade, S. Fierce. I’ve already figured out what I was going wrong” So, what is good about the cable tactic above and how to beat it. The fierce is done high or low in the air? What about grenade, it’s LK very high, right? Thanks Posted by teammember004 on 05:15:2001 06:12 AM: by jinmaster: “I suggest dashing at people wiht sent and superjumping and mashing roundhouse so that its like an overhead attack, then cancel the ove to flight after they block or get hit, then call an assist and hit roundhouse again, then unfly. That will stop most people. You can also c.fierce from far away, fly, stomp twice, and unfly. Like I said to others, download the vids on this site for more help. “ How to beat it? I think that gb the fly cancel idea could be good here. Thanks Posted by teammember005 on 05:15:2001 06:19 AM: by jinmaster: “I suggest learning how to play Ironman really well so that you can bring Cable in with Max life and max supers. You will need to call Sent, super jump up and shoot smartbombs and air dash up. Come down with a knee-stomp and cancel that into flight, and call Sent again.” How to beat it using cable(usually with cyke b assist, or spiral a)?thanks Posted by teammember006 on 05:15:2001 06:20 AM: Could you talk about the different versions of spiral/sent trap? I know 1)WoS + Sent, 2) WoS + Sent with 5 swords, 3) HP, release swords, calls sent at the end and reload, HP again…, 4) ground swords, sent at the last one, dash HP(sent hits), reload, more ground swords… but I don’t know at which times should I use any of them, and if there are any othe good traps for them. A indepth explanation of it would be fantastic. Thanks a lot, Fluffy. Posted by teammember007 on 05:15:2001 06:23 AM: My turn, here I am again. Like I'm typing, I just like to thank yoiu very much for all your effort again, Fluffy, and remind you that you left my last question out . I will write it again, OK? "I learned to do counter into ahvb, and it really can even hit another cable after his ahvb. But, when the other cable is ahvbing very close to the ground, or even doing a normal vb, I can't hit him before he lands. Does the landing animation makes this moves safe against the counter into AHVB or it's just me being too slow. thanks a lot " Thank you very much! Posted by teammember008 on 05:15:2001 06:25 AM: – How to protect my assist from the BBHood, Juggy, Hulk triple super combo. With Cabe, if I try the sj. grenade or cross up, assist may be dead when I land. With storm, I’m afraid to do typhoon and be surprised for a jump in combo and with soiral I think when I finish teleporting it could be too late too. So what should I do? Thanks Posted by teammember009 on 05:15:2001 06:27 AM: by jinmaster about cable/cyc vs bh/cyc “Call cyke when BH is coming down to short you after the air dash, super-jump up with Cable when you find a window, and AHVB any screwups by BH. It's tedious but you will have a window just by staying mobile and pushblocking different parts of the trap. “ What are the best parts to push block? by jinmaster about storm/cyc vs bh/cyc:” Same thing, but Hailstorm at the right time and catch BH when he throws demons. You can also lightning attack forward when he first superjumps to screw up his trap” What’s the right time? And how to beat BH/cyc or BH/commando using cable w/ sent assist or cable w/spiral assist? Thanks a a lot Posted by teammember010 on 05:15:2001 06:28 AM: by jinmaster: “Ive been experimenting a bit more with him, and he seems useful as a Spiral counter. I drop sarcophs far to stop her keep-away, and when she teleports I do a close one and it smacks her. I can randomly do the sarcoph-drop super and I put Storm second in order to DHC to safety or to catch a teleporting spiral. ” How to play spiral against it? Posted by Jinmaster on 05:15:2001 04:41 PM: grr OMG, you took random parts of the help thread I closed! Heh. Well, I'll let fluff handle most of them but I'll write a few things. #1, when you have storm/AAA vs BH/AAA, it helps to find a moment to superjump up with BH and air dash at bh when he throws the RH and dashes, or just lightning attack him randomly at SJ height. None of my current teams have clops on the same team as storm though, so I'm usually facing BH/commando-or-clops with my storm/doom-or-psylocke. This changes things a bit becuase of how those assists come out. As for anakaris, I've pretty much given up on him. One of the things that makes a team good is the fact that you only need to hold a button and switch point characters(or do it quickly during the match) and entirely screw over the opponent's counter. The only spiral teams that I know of that can be effective are spiral/cable/sent, spiral/sent/bh, and to a lesser degree spiral/cable/doom. Against anakaris, either be prepared to mix up your teleports or just play it simple and start Cable or Sentinel. Rush him down with beams and/or flight. Simple. Anohter thing people try to cheese me with is letting me pick my spiral team and then try to counter her with Doom/storm/Sentinel or Doom/BH or something like that. Luckily, I've played Ricky Ortiz enough times to know what to do against these types of counters. I start cable vs Doom and just jack him hard with j.fierces, and quick jab beams, laying on the cable/spiral trap randomly. I'm very good at fighting doom/bh combinations, and thats how ricky stopped spiral from getting wasted, he just starts cable. No biggie. I have a very high knowlege of counters and how to get around them with my best teams. I'm not going to explain everything I do, there are some major tournaments I have to worry about. =) I plan on doing well at ecc6. =) Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:16:2001 04:15 AM: Re: grr quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster OMG, you took random parts of the help thread I closed! Heh. Well, I'll let fluff handle most of them but I'll write a few things. #1, when you have storm/AAA vs BH/AAA, it helps to find a moment to superjump up with BH and air dash at bh when he throws the RH and dashes, or just lightning attack him randomly at SJ height. None of my current teams have clops on the same team as storm though, so I'm usually facing BH/commando-or-clops with my storm/doom-or-psylocke. This changes things a bit becuase of how those assists come out. As for anakaris, I've pretty much given up on him. One of the things that makes a team good is the fact that you only need to hold a button and switch point characters(or do it quickly during the match) and entirely screw over the opponent's counter. The only spiral teams that I know of that can be effective are spiral/cable/sent, spiral/sent/bh, and to a lesser degree spiral/cable/doom. Against anakaris, either be prepared to mix up your teleports or just play it simple and start Cable or Sentinel. Rush him down with beams and/or flight. Simple. Anohter thing people try to cheese me with is letting me pick my spiral team and then try to counter her with Doom/storm/Sentinel or Doom/BH or something like that. Luckily, I've played Ricky Ortiz enough times to know what to do against these types of counters. I start cable vs Doom and just jack him hard with j.fierces, and quick jab beams, laying on the cable/spiral trap randomly. I'm very good at fighting doom/bh combinations, and thats how ricky stopped spiral from getting wasted, he just starts cable. No biggie. I have a very high knowlege of counters and how to get around them with my best teams. I'm not going to explain everything I do, there are some major tournaments I have to worry about. =) I plan on doing well at ecc6. =) Hehe. Sandbagger. Hehe. Anyway, I just wanted to say that my recent absence has been due to the fact that this is my finals week and i've very busy. As much as I would like to respond to your questions as promply as possible, I can't at the moment. I will probably get around to doing it after saturday, but I also might be gone again the next week. I plan on doing some super deep training for my trip to ECC. Again, sorry for the delay. Posted by gief on 05:16:2001 07:45 AM: Re: Re: grr quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Hehe. Sandbagger. Hehe. Anyway, I just wanted to say that my recent absence has been due to the fact that this is my finals week and i've very busy. As much as I would like to respond to your questions as promply as possible, I can't at the moment. I will probably get around to doing it after saturday, but I also might be gone again the next week. I plan on doing some super deep training for my trip to ECC. Again, sorry for the delay. You don't have to rush anything, Fluffy. I'm sure all of us will continue admiring this thread even if you answer like once a week or less, it's a fantastic job that you're doing here. I have a question for you. on the vid duc vs valle 4/2(duc has cable/spi/sent, valle has sent/spi/bh), after catch a tagged in sent with a fierce air VB and maked him block swords, cable does a sj. forward with HP. It seems to me that it was a missed ahvb attempt. If it is, why would duc ahvb at the time(the chip would be little to a ful energy sent, and sent’s position was to low to gb)? Or it is just a preventive hp just in case sent sjs? What do you think(if you saw the movie)? Thank's a lot! Posted by Jinmaster on 05:16:2001 03:58 PM: I have the vid at home but I'm at work, how much meter did Cable have? If spiral was near death, he may have tried to ahvb to save her, but if the sitation had cable at 3-4 meters he may have just done it to retain control of the match. The opponent is always capable of calling BH and superjumping immediately. Perhaps duc was trying to remain frosty and catch BH coming out. Random AHVB vs high level players that call assists and SJ can be useful provided you don't use up meter that you feel you tactically need. Hope that makes sense. Posted by NewSchool on 05:18:2001 12:15 AM: If you could please explain how does Bonerine/Sentinel rushdown work and how does it handle people with AAA. Also who fits for a 3rd person in this team? NewSchool Posted by Onikage on 05:18:2001 01:14 AM: Heyas - I've been having some fun with M.Bison lately, and am looking for a little assistance. Playing Bison/Cable/Sent (I have no idea who he teams well with, and my Cable needs work anyways). I'm using his air scissor kick to move around, and basically playing a chip/keepaway game with Sent assist and Cable AAA. Anything specific to work on would be much appreciated. Posted by Sho 2 on 05:18:2001 02:39 AM: Is Hayato any good? I mean what are his good points and his bad points. I just asking because I used paly with him but stopped for the lack of a good team with him. Posted by Smiley on 05:18:2001 03:04 AM: question bout the spiral traps: who should i play? spiral/sent and BH or Cable? i'm more comfortable with cable, and since i've won most my matches with AHVB's, i was wondering if it would be worth it to learn BH and replace cable with him. and any help on spiral trapping would be appreciated. Posted by granite on 05:18:2001 06:21 AM: The problem: BH/Sent/Cammy My team: Mags/Sent/Capcom My opponent is using cammy because it has priority over my capcom, anyhow I'm having trouble approaching his BH with my mags on point .. I tend to dash into his rh demons randomly and this gets me killed. do you suggest I start with sentinel on point ? if so, what exactly should I doing with him ? Posted by TexMex on 05:18:2001 07:26 AM: whats up people. just wanted to know if anyone here plays rushdown rogue or if she is effective at all. what are some normal strats to use when playing her? Who are some good people to pair her up with? is she tourney viable? Also what assist do people usually use with her? I don't think her throw type is that bad just b/c its unblockable and all and if I'm playin rush down storm it has a good chance of hitting...her dash type could probably set up a hail storm or something but its so predictable and so easy to see coming. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:18:2001 07:39 PM: Rogue quote: Originally posted by TexMex whats up people. just wanted to know if anyone here plays rushdown rogue or if she is effective at all. what are some normal strats to use when playing her? Who are some good people to pair her up with? is she tourney viable? Also what assist do people usually use with her? I don't think her throw type is that bad just b/c its unblockable and all and if I'm playin rush down storm it has a good chance of hitting...her dash type could probably set up a hail storm or something but its so predictable and so easy to see coming. I'm baaaaaaaack. Anyway, Rogue. Personally, I don't put too much faith in her. If you play rushdown Rogue, I don't see why you're not playing rushdown Magneto. Magneto does more damage, has more mobility, has faster attacks and has an 8-way air dash. If you want to know what teams work with Rogue, it's basically the same type the work with Magneto. You will probably want at least one type of good anti-air assist that can be comboed off of, like Cyke or Psylocke. You could use other AAA though. For the third character (who I'd actually put 2nd) you'll want someone that can either DHC to or that is good in a triple teams. Rogue's triple team super is really damaging alone and can be with others for lots of damage. Posted by SSJ2_Gouki on 05:18:2001 08:13 PM: Re: Rogue quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL I'm baaaaaaaack. Anyway, Rogue. Personally, I don't put too much faith in her. If you play rushdown Rogue, I don't see why you're not playing rushdown Magneto. Magneto does more damage, has more mobility, has faster attacks and has an 8-way air dash. If you want to know what teams work with Rogue, it's basically the same type the work with Magneto. You will probably want at least one type of good anti-air assist that can be comboed off of, like Cyke or Psylocke. You could use other AAA though. For the third character (who I'd actually put 2nd) you'll want someone that can either DHC to or that is good in a triple teams. Rogue's triple team super is really damaging alone and can be with others for lots of damage. Pretty much. And air dash and dive kick ALL DAY. It's her only approach for Cable and other keep away characters. If you want to be adventurous, pick for the THC, as it is good. Hulk is good with damn near any THC, especially for the fact that the Gamma Crush holds victims on the ground(not to mention hurts like hell) while the other two do what they're doing. He also povides a good wall as an assist. Those two and Cable or Juggernaut make for a really dangerous THC. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:19:2001 06:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by granite The problem: BH/Sent/Cammy My team: Mags/Sent/Capcom My opponent is using cammy because it has priority over my capcom, anyhow I'm having trouble approaching his BH with my mags on point .. I tend to dash into his rh demons randomly and this gets me killed. do you suggest I start with sentinel on point ? if so, what exactly should I doing with him ? Just be patient. Get close and don't do anything. Wait for the Cammy assist to come out and call Capcom. If he doesn't call cammy, get him into the habit of calling her to hit commando then delay it once. Once again, patience is the key. Just wait for your opportunity. The only thing is that Sent/Capcom vs Sent/BH isn't that good for you. It would almost be better to put Cable in instead of Sentinel. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:19:2001 06:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Smiley question bout the spiral traps: who should i play? spiral/sent and BH or Cable? i'm more comfortable with cable, and since i've won most my matches with AHVB's, i was wondering if it would be worth it to learn BH and replace cable with him. and any help on spiral trapping would be appreciated. Honestly, it doesn't matter. It pays to be able to play both, but stick with the one you're comfortable with. Keep in mind that in casual play, you are allowed to experiment and you are allowed to loose. It's always good for you to know how other teams work so you can fight against them better. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:19:2001 06:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Sho 2 Is Hayato any good? I mean what are his good points and his bad points. I just asking because I used paly with him but stopped for the lack of a good team with him. See description of Jill, but take away the priority. Overall, I'd say Hayato is a candidate for worst character in the game. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:19:2001 06:22 AM: Bison quote: Originally posted by Onikage Heyas - I've been having some fun with M.Bison lately, and am looking for a little assistance. Playing Bison/Cable/Sent (I have no idea who he teams well with, and my Cable needs work anyways). I'm using his air scissor kick to move around, and basically playing a chip/keepaway game with Sent assist and Cable AAA. Anything specific to work on would be much appreciated. I am not the Bison expert. If you want a more in depth analysis, ask Viscant. But, I would say that you'd want a team that would be good to DHC off of his air combo into super. Viscant uses storm with him a lot (then again, he uses Storm a lot) and also had Doom. I would say a team of Bison/Storm/Psylocke could be useful, mostly because you can set up air combos with psylocke and DHC to Storm. Bison/Sent is a good combination though. Bison/Sent/Commando could be useful as well. There are a lot of other two character combinations that Bison could be useful on. Just experiment a bit. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:20:2001 09:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember008 – How to protect my assist from the BBHood, Juggy, Hulk triple super combo. With Cabe, if I try the sj. grenade or cross up, assist may be dead when I land. With storm, I’m afraid to do typhoon and be surprised for a jump in combo and with soiral I think when I finish teleporting it could be too late too. So what should I do? Thanks There are ways. #1. just don't call it anymore. More than likely, you will probably have a lead and can just run away and build meter. If she tries to do anything, you can usually AHVB it. Which leads to #2. depending on the size of your character (it has to be big enough), you can sometimes AHVB it on reaction. Especially if you know she'll be itching to kill it. Call your helper, let it be within range, and go for the AHVB. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:20:2001 09:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember007 My turn, here I am again. Like I'm typing, I just like to thank yoiu very much for all your effort again, Fluffy, and remind you that you left my last question out . I will write it again, OK? "I learned to do counter into ahvb, and it really can even hit another cable after his ahvb. But, when the other cable is ahvbing very close to the ground, or even doing a normal vb, I can't hit him before he lands. Does the landing animation makes this moves safe against the counter into AHVB or it's just me being too slow. thanks a lot " Keep in mind if you are trying to counter an AHVB, it takes crackerjack timing. There are only a few frames of recovery for AHVB, so you literally have to counter as soon as it's safe. Then, the few frames you have for startup will still be shorter than the frames of recovery, so you'll hit, barely. You have to get used to doing the counter at the very first safe instant. It helps to some kind of rhythm or counting scheme for the timing on how long AHVB is. You should be able to counter XX AHVB almost anything. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:20:2001 09:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember006 Could you talk about the different versions of spiral/sent trap? I know 1)WoS + Sent, 2) WoS + Sent with 5 swords, 3) HP, release swords, calls sent at the end and reload, HP again…, 4) ground swords, sent at the last one, dash HP(sent hits), reload, more ground swords… but I don’t know at which times should I use any of them, and if there are any othe good traps for them. A indepth explanation of it would be fantastic. Thanks a lot, Fluffy. Hehe. There's not much indepth stuff I can give you with this. Basically, WOS is good. It will work on a lot of characters. It's also your safest bet. Sometimes you want to keep your trap tighter, and that's when you use 5 swords. Most big characters can be kept down with the tighter rotation. the HP trap is pretty good, provided you know the timing on it and you can find a way to start it. That's usually the hardest part. A lot of people start by using WOS to get and jump forward while throwing knives to get close enough to hit a C.Short -> C.Forward -> S.Fierce and start it that way. That's not always the best, as it is highly susceptible to AAA, mainly psylocke, cyclops, and commando. Just remember that your goal with spiral is to do the most amount of damage while still being safe and building meter. If you do all of that, you'll be successful. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:20:2001 09:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember005 by jinmaster: “I suggest learning how to play Ironman really well so that you can bring Cable in with Max life and max supers. You will need to call Sent, super jump up and shoot smartbombs and air dash up. Come down with a knee-stomp and cancel that into flight, and call Sent again.” How to beat it using cable(usually with cyke b assist, or spiral a)?thanks You don't. Iron man can be a very bad match-up for Cable if you dont' have an assist that will keep him out of the air like Bh or Commando or Ken or Cammy. If you only have Cyke, you'll have to do a lot of running round on the ground and hope you don't run into an assist, like Sentinel ground. You will have to rely on your quick striking AHVBs. A lot of times, Iron Man players will get greedy or sloppy and either won't air dash or will come to the ground looking for something like an infinite. That's usually when you get to punish. Other than that, if the Iron Man is played well, you should be at a major disadvantage. Especially with Sent assist. BH assist totally changes the match into your favor though. Other characters require a bit more work, but BH tracks, so it's so easy to hit AHVBs on Iron Man as he dodges BH. Or he will just keep getting hit by it. Whichever way, you will win. Posted by SHGL fan on 05:20:2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You should be able to counter XX AHVB almost anything. I'm not so sure, Fluffy. I think that even a regular air viper beam(non special), when done close to the ground, it becames safe against the counter into AHVB. Most of the recovery frames are cancelled by the landing animation. I'm not totally sure, but I never get AHVBed when I do a vb or em disruptor very close to the ground(coming down, of course). Posted by beta on 05:20:2001 08:09 PM: When I do the cable/spiral trap against Sentinel(j. HP+spiral, vb) when he's on the ground he can sometime hits me doing the HSF(super armor plus drones cut through my moves and hits me on the vb's recovery). What can I do against that? Posted by MAGUS1234 on 05:20:2001 10:41 PM: strider doom hey whats up guys !~ heres the prblem i have with my strider doom capcom: 1.im not shure when to call oros like i know to do so when a dog hits and when specific chars jump but when ever i play storm or spiral i can never find an opening plus is there any specific opens i should look for 2.when i get the oros on whats the order i call the asist (reasons would help to)alot of times i get anxios and tele the drop doom tele again and then doom taunts right when oros are done leaving no window to recharge 3.i play doom point but i can never get more than 2.5 meter and 2 of that goes to the electro super to oros should i play different point or play doom another way?? 4.is there someone who works better than capcom? thx for the help guys sorry so many q's ps.hey mica hit me up sometime! Posted by Jinmaster on 05:21:2001 03:26 PM: As far as I know, you can't cable-tech another AHVB that was executed low to the ground, however I can personally cable-tech vs another AHVB that was done at mid-jump height. Magnus, Got yer mail. Just use teleports or wave-dash in util you can make them block a doom assist outside of Uro, which is your free call to Uro. Stay on them and call doom again at the end of Uro. You're very good at timing issues so I think you can fiure out how to keep it going rather easily. Oh, and don't forget to randomly throw when Uro finishes. Posted by fei long on 05:21:2001 06:57 PM: i dont know if somebody already asked this , but could you give me some advanced tactics for strider/doom ? and some recomended third partners to the team thanks Posted by Jinmaster on 05:21:2001 06:58 PM: Commando works, for more info on playing strider doom you can searh through this forum for my old help thread. Posted by cheese_master on 05:21:2001 07:23 PM: My question revolves around the counter into the AHVB... are there many different heights that I can cancel into the AHVB? Because I find that if I cancel too quickly... I am the ground and asking which way to die. The only other time I can get the cancel is where he lets go of the scimitar... this sucks cuz I am too high up to get more than AHVB x 2 unless they have Sent or BH... and if I hit their assist character and not them... then after one AHVB... they have a chance to superjump out to save their assist from the second AHVB... which also sucks. So I am wondering is there a way to cancel at the ideal AHVB height and roughly what the timing is? Posted by fei long on 05:21:2001 07:25 PM: ey jinmaster its gone, i cant find gone, and can i ask you your views on strider/doom and how you play against it and with what team? thanks ~!payce out!~ Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:21:2001 07:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master My question revolves around the counter into the AHVB... are there many different heights that I can cancel into the AHVB? Because I find that if I cancel too quickly... I am the ground and asking which way to die. The only other time I can get the cancel is where he lets go of the scimitar... this sucks cuz I am too high up to get more than AHVB x 2 unless they have Sent or BH... and if I hit their assist character and not them... then after one AHVB... they have a chance to superjump out to save their assist from the second AHVB... which also sucks. So I am wondering is there a way to cancel at the ideal AHVB height and roughly what the timing is? It's hard to explain the timing in writing. It helps of you've seen it. If you have a DC, practice AHVBing off of a Fierce-Psimitar just tto see how fast it is. Keep in mind, there's a slight delay when you counter, so you'll have to wait for it to leap. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:21:2001 07:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by beta When I do the cable/spiral trap against Sentinel(j. HP+spiral, vb) when he's on the ground he can sometime hits me doing the HSF(super armor plus drones cut through my moves and hits me on the vb's recovery). What can I do against that? You have to look for this. You can actually AHVB through his HSF when you're doing this trap, assuming you have meter and aren't trying to build it. Just don't be overly repetitious. After the first rotation, he'll probably be looking to break it up. That's when you just jump back and call spiral and wait to see if he does HSFs. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:21:2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by SHGL fan I'm not so sure, Fluffy. I think that even a regular air viper beam(non special), when done close to the ground, it becames safe against the counter into AHVB. Most of the recovery frames are cancelled by the landing animation. I'm not totally sure, but I never get AHVBed when I do a vb or em disruptor very close to the ground(coming down, of course). AVB should not be safe at all. You can AHVB the recovery from a AVB, so countering (which avoids blockstun altogether) should allow you do hit the AHVB. As Jinmaster said, it's not possible to counter a really low AHVB (I wasn't sure on that) but I'm positive you can counter a AVB. The only thing is that if you use Jab instead of Fierce, the timing on the counter changes and most people don't realize it until it's too late to do anything. Posted by TS on 05:21:2001 07:53 PM: Thoughts on Team Shoto. Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:22:2001 12:02 AM: Ryu projectial Ken Anti-Air Akuma Expantion dont use all three characters at same time... do supers chained. Use Ryu / Akuma trap & Ken / Akuma Trap (Akuma helper= expantion, Ryu or ken do air launcher or huricane kick Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:22:2001 01:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by TS Thoughts on Team Shoto. Team Shoto is too good. You will see it creep up and win tourneys soon. Ok, that's the end of my sarcasm. It is ok. It's not a top tier team. It is very solid for a non-top tier team however and it stresses the fundamentals more than anything. Ryu can combo supers off of akuma hurricane assist, but it doesn't do too much damage. Actually, none of their combos do much damage. But, if you get a lead, you can just run away with Ken assist since all three are so nimble anyway. Things like covering helpers, ticks into throws, and even cross-ups (traditional SF cross-ups) are the things you need to be successful with this team. Ryu also has a lot of throw games. I've seen various people play it with various tricks. A lot of the success I've seen from this team is just because of it's tricks. I wouldn't expect to win any finals matches with this. Maybe some first or second rounds, if you fight below average people, but not any further than that. Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:22:2001 01:56 AM: I need help building a team... I want guile in there definetly... im getting really really good with him. Im also really good with any of the shotos... preferably Akuma because im godly with him unless i run into someoen like clossis, juggernaught... the very high dmg people... Im also really good with strider, but i want to have a good backbone and people like akuma and strider cant take much dmg, so i only want one or the other.. or mabe none, but im really good with both. I dont really like cheap people like doom / cable / blackheart so i want to stay away from them.. Im really good also, with mega man, capcom, sakura, sakura, charlie, tron... just to name a few... Can you give me suggestions on which other two i should use... i really want either strider or akuma.. preferably akuma.... but i want to see what you think What do you see? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:24:2001 06:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 I need help building a team... I want guile in there definetly... im getting really really good with him. Im also really good with any of the shotos... preferably Akuma because im godly with him unless i run into someoen like clossis, juggernaught... the very high dmg people... Im also really good with strider, but i want to have a good backbone and people like akuma and strider cant take much dmg, so i only want one or the other.. or mabe none, but im really good with both. I dont really like cheap people like doom / cable / blackheart so i want to stay away from them.. Im really good also, with mega man, capcom, sakura, sakura, charlie, tron... just to name a few... Can you give me suggestions on which other two i should use... i really want either strider or akuma.. preferably akuma.... but i want to see what you think What do you see? I would not recommend guile, but if you must, the best guile teams i've seen are guile/juggie and guile/sent. The combination of rushing down and the double hit roundhouse while calling a helper to pin down and push back just enough to make the jab sonic boom keep them in blockstun is the best strats i've seen with him. I would recommend playing guile/juggie/iceman. that is a very old school team. like, before we even knew about cable. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:24:2001 06:35 AM: I just wanted to let everyone know that still follows this thread that as of now, I'm on temporary hiatis. I'm going to ECC this weekend and I won't have time to check SRK forums at all after today. If you leave questions, I will be back to them. Also, if your question didn't get answered, just post it again. AFAIK, i'm caught up on things. I'll be back on tuesday. Posted by Jakuda on 05:24:2001 07:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL AVB should not be safe at all. You can AHVB the recovery from a AVB, so countering (which avoids blockstun altogether) should allow you do hit the AHVB. As Jinmaster said, it's not possible to counter a really low AHVB (I wasn't sure on that) but I'm positive you can counter a AVB. The only thing is that if you use Jab instead of Fierce, the timing on the counter changes and most people don't realize it until it's too late to do anything. Yeah, AVB is not safe, which I learned the hard way some long time ago. Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:24:2001 11:49 AM: e Then abiding by what i said in my last post, what should be a good team for me Posted by kdcmarvel on 05:24:2001 03:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL AVB should not be safe at all. You can AHVB the recovery from a AVB, so countering (which avoids blockstun altogether) should allow you do hit the AHVB. As Jinmaster said, it's not possible to counter a really low AHVB (I wasn't sure on that) but I'm positive you can counter a AVB. The only thing is that if you use Jab instead of Fierce, the timing on the counter changes and most people don't realize it until it's too late to do anything. I'm not sure about the safety of the regular air viper beam, Fluffy, but I think it can be safe depending of the time it takes to land, and not the recovery time. My bad english might makes it hard to explain, but I think that if you're still going down at the end of your "close to the ground" move, like almost any air HK, you'll be safe. But if the lag of the move makles the character stays on the same height for some frames, like Iceman's Icebeam, then it's AHVBable(or counter AHVBable, which it's even faster because you don't have any blockstun on your Cable). You know that kind of Cable players that does HKs very close to the ground when fighting Cable vs Cable? The HK has a number of frames(which I don't know) between the start and teh end of it. If you're Cable at the other end of the screen and you see an opponent doing a HK you can AHVB him. But if the opponent does it very close to the ground it will have like just one initial frame and it will be cancelled by landing, hence making the opponent able to block. That's why the AHVB can't be "counter into AHVBed" when it's very close to the ground. If you do a blocked AHVB(sj. state), not close to the ground, you may eat a counter into AHVB and when the screen frozes you can see that you're at recovery animation(Cable is showing his back holding the gun at a diagonal position, during a very few frames). But if you do that AHVB when Cable is just off of the ground, almost landing, when the opponent does the counter(last frame of AHVB) any attempt of attack he does after it(in fact only the AHVB) will be unable to catch you, because teh landing animation will cancel the first frame of your recovery, making it way faster. Which I'm trying to point out is that if one Cable player does a blocked viper beam very very close to the ground, his descending after the move may(I'm not sure) cancel it in 1 frame, like the HK stuff, which would made it safe even against a counter into AHVB. And the timing to recovery will not be related to the lag of the move, but with the landing time(since the character will lands before the end of the lag). I hope I made myself clear, and I would like to know what do you think about it. By the way, your thread it's great. It's nice to have a thread where I can go to find sure, good in depth stuff and post doubts or comments about advanced stuff knowing that it will get a good, intelligent answer(Jinmaster's thread was like that too). Good luck at ECC6 and see you later! Posted by Jinmaster on 05:24:2001 05:34 PM: KdCMavAL, YU SI R!!t un DAT 1. TER si 1 fr@ME FO AVVB stAT-OP. Ter-4' U cun lund. HOEP ! MACE CENTS. Posted by kdcmarvel on 05:24:2001 05:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster KdCMavAL, YU SI R!!t un DAT 1. TER si 1 fr@ME FO AVVB stAT-OP. Ter-4' U cun lund. HOEP ! MACE CENTS. Man, you really confused me. I barely can speak english, what can I say of read your codes? Anyways, if I'm right you said that AHVB has one frame startup while his lag has 4. I agree that the lag is more than enough to eat a counter into ahvb, but what I'm trying to say is that the landing cancels any extra frames that the lag of the move can have. Like I pointed, Cable's HK has only 1 frame if you do it just before you land, as oppose to ten or so if you do it in mid air(considering the initial frame until the recovery). The same happens to AHVB. If you land, you cancel the recovery at the first frame, and you can block again. Good luck to you at ECC6 too. See ya! BTW: Please, when you answer me, try to type normally or at least put a legend, because you can't imagine how lost I am reading this code stuff See ya! edit I think I got it now. You said "yadda yadda there's one frame for ahvb startup. Therefore you can land. Hope it makes sense" So it seems that you're agreeing with me. If AHVB has one frame start up, and it's only 1 frame to land, close to teh ground moves are safe. And to the AHVB you still has to discount the last blockstun frames(when you get out of blockstun teh opponent has landed). The counter into AHVB has probably 2 or 3 frames(I think, counter, the little moment when you do a ground HVB if you're too fast, and the right moment) which is still more than the one taht teh opponent has to land. If I misunderstood you, please get back to me. And, of course, for your last queston, it doesn't makes any sense Posted by Dasrik on 05:24:2001 05:49 PM: Jinmaster... Seek help. Posted by Jin on 05:24:2001 06:02 PM: I think I understood it: _______________________ YU SI R!!t un DAT 1. You is/are right on that one. ______________________ TER si 1 fr@ME FO AVVB stAT-OP. There is one frame for AHVB to start-up. _______________________ Ter-4' U cun lund. Therefore you can land. _______________________ HOEP ! MACE CENTS. Hope I made sense. _______________________ Posted by kdcmarvel on 05:24:2001 06:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jin I think I understood it: _______________________ YU SI R!!t un DAT 1. You is/are right on that one. ______________________ TER si 1 fr@ME FO AVVB stAT-OP. There is one frame for AHVB to start-up. _______________________ Ter-4' U cun lund. Therefore you can land. _______________________ HOEP ! MACE CENTS. Hope I made sense. _______________________ Thank's , Jin. So the part I edited(bottom of my previous message) wasn't that wrong. my previous edit from the last post(in case someone didn't saw it): "edit I think I got it now. You said "yadda yadda there's one frame for ahvb startup. Therefore you can land. Hope it makes sense" So it seems that you're agreeing with me. If AHVB has one frame start up, and it's only 1 frame to land, close to teh ground moves are safe. And to the AHVB you still has to discount the last blockstun frames(when you get out of blockstun teh opponent has landed). The counter into AHVB has probably 2 or 3 frames(I think, counter, the little moment when you do a ground HVB if you're too fast, and the right moment) which is still more than the one taht teh opponent has to land. If I misunderstood you, please get back to me. And, of course, for your last queston, it doesn't makes any sense " Now with Jin's translation, it's all clear. Thanks, Jin. See you all later! Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:24:2001 08:20 PM: heh whats with this code stuff? Some of my friends speak it also, and its soo stupid... whats so special about saying "sux00r" It doenst mean anything different that saying somthign sucks... Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:24:2001 08:23 PM: Also, Whos better... Guile or Charlie and what would you say they are on a scale of (1-20) 20 being the best and 1 being the worst... also, can soemoen break them down for me? I mean like say what they are good at... their str and weaknesses, and who they work well with plz... Posted by TS on 05:24:2001 08:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Team Shoto is too good. At least we agree here. quote: It is ok. It's not a top tier team. It is very solid for a non-top tier team however and it stresses the fundamentals more than anything. Ryu can combo supers off of akuma hurricane assist, but it doesn't do too much damage. Actually, none of their combos do much damage. But, if you get a lead, you can just run away with Ken assist since all three are so nimble anyway. Things like covering helpers, ticks into throws, and even cross-ups (traditional SF cross-ups) are the things you need to be successful with this team. Ryu also has a lot of throw games. I've seen various people play it with various tricks. A lot of the success I've seen from this team is just because of it's tricks. I wouldn't expect to win any finals matches with this. Maybe some first or second rounds, if you fight below average people, but not any further than that. Wow. A better endorsement than I had expected. I agree with a lot of what you say though... What throw games does Ryu have? Never heard of those. As for damage though, Ken and Akuma do have their hurricane kick glitches in the air. Ryu has one too, but it's hard (and no $ = no practice). Posted by Ascension on 05:24:2001 08:38 PM: Cyclops triple jump air combo? It's driving me insaine. A workable team with good Aerial Raves that include Jin? I think that one is impossible. I must use JIN! A servbot combo by any chance? Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:24:2001 08:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ascension A workable team with good Aerial Raves that include Jin? I think that one is impossible. I must use JIN! A servbot combo by any chance? Psylock has really good ariel raves along with Akuma, Magneto, Cable(only if HVBV is involved) and doom, just to name a few __________________________________________________ _________________ Now can someone help me with the Guile/Charlie thing i asked in my last post Posted by kdcmarvel on 05:25:2001 07:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ascension Cyclops triple jump air combo? It's driving me insaine. LP, MP(launcher), LP, LK, MP, LP, LK ,MP, (double jump), LP, LK, MP, MK, AC finisher(I don't remember if it's HP, HK or any of them). That's the basic version. I hope it helps! Posted by trbiggie on 05:25:2001 11:26 PM: How do you super jump throw someone out of a super jump....? I mean for example is your opponent super jumps then when they are coming down you super jump up near them then throw them... What is the timing on that? Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:27:2001 09:25 PM: Air Throws its different for different characters, but ive found that HP to be a pretty common button for an air throw. But remember that you have to be right next to them in order to do it. Posted by TigeR GenocidE on 05:27:2001 11:06 PM: Can anyone give me wolverine strats/combos Wolverine not bonerine. Yeah I know he's not the best character but I'm trying new stuff. So anyone wanna help me out? Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:28:2001 12:40 AM: Guile charlie will someone plz help me with guile and charlie... read my last couple of posts Posted by Servebot on 05:28:2001 01:10 AM: Hey I got a question. My team is Strider/Doom/CapCom. What else can I do with doom/CapCom after Strider dies besidesj. fp, call CapCom, and sj. hcb+p ? Are ther any other options besides that that are effective against people? Posted by kdcmarvel on 05:29:2001 04:15 AM: Hi, Fluffy. I'm back here wondering what you and Jinmaster have to tell about the ECC tourney. What new stuff you saw there, what's the most effective tactics you saw there, how did you played, and that kind of stuff... I'm mostly interested at MvC2, but I'm sure any info about all the games, tourney organization or your trip would be nice to read. See you guys later! Posted by DaBomb963 on 05:29:2001 12:02 PM: nm fluffy... where are you man Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 04:34 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS Wow. A better endorsement than I had expected. I agree with a lot of what you say though... What throw games does Ryu have? Never heard of those. As for damage though, Ken and Akuma do have their hurricane kick glitches in the air. Ryu has one too, but it's hard (and no $ = no practice). Ryu's punch throw puts your opponent literally at your feet. It is very fast and allows you to do a second throw really fast before your opponent realizes it. Also, you can go for a traditional SF style cross-up off of it too. Mix that in with some more throw games, and it gets to be a pain. Old school SF tactics in VS games == totally unexpected. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 04:36 PM: Re: nm quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 fluffy... where are you man Well, if you actually read my earlier posts, you'd realize that I was in New Jersey for ECC6. I said i wouldn't be back until tuesday. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 04:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by Servebot Hey I got a question. My team is Strider/Doom/CapCom. What else can I do with doom/CapCom after Strider dies besidesj. fp, call CapCom, and sj. hcb+p ? Are ther any other options besides that that are effective against people? If you want to play CapCom or if you happen to DHC to a Captain Sword, you can use CapCom rushdown tactics with Ginsu call, Doom assist, and captain kick. If throw out a Ginsu and it's blocked, you can wave dash up and make them block low attacks while you call Doom assist. As soon as you call Doom, do a captain kick so you pass over their head and land on the other side to push them into rocks. Doesn't work in the corner, but if you've got them cornered with Doom assist, it's already over. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 04:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by TigeR GenocidE Can anyone give me wolverine strats/combos Wolverine not bonerine. Yeah I know he's not the best character but I'm trying new stuff. So anyone wanna help me out? The only Wolverine Strats i've heard about beyond the basic rushdown is Wolverine/Doom. You can call Doom and do the dashing claw teleport move (Berserker Slash) and then push them into Doom with Berserker Barrage. I haven't tried this out very much, but Dasrik tells me it works well. Just learn his regular combos into BBX. That's very important. He can combo BB and cancel it with BBX. I don't remember the exact combo, but i think you can combo a BB off of C.Fierce (which won't combo into BBX anymore) and then cancel the BB with BBX. As hard as capcom tried, you can still combo a BBX off of a C.Fierce. Also, i like playing Wolverine with an AAA. I like one that will hit my opponent way up into the air, so I don't have to worry about it for a couple of seconds to allow me to throw or try to combo. A lot of people that play Wolverine just don't understand that he is rushdown and needs something to punish assists. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 04:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by trbiggie How do you super jump throw someone out of a super jump....? I mean for example is your opponent super jumps then when they are coming down you super jump up near them then throw them... What is the timing on that? Honestly, I don't do this very well. It basically involves knowing the exact angles to throw someone. Most of the time, I see this being done to characters that SJ and do some move that will hold them up in the air, like Cable's grenade. From what I can gather, there is a direct relationship between how close you have to be to your opponent before you jump and the height at which you throw. The lower the throw, the closer you need to be. The spacing is so subtle, it's hardly noticable and that's why I think it's so hard. It's hard to describe in words, but it's something like less 1.5 character lengths for the highest point possible (while they are coming down). The timing on the actual throw is very awkward as well. Because you're travelling up so fast, you have to input it while it looks like you're still below your opponent slightly. It's really difficult. The only people that I've seen do it consistantly are Viscant, Ricky, and Duc. I'm sure others do it, but I don't remember anyone else that did that a lot. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 05:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ascension Cyclops triple jump air combo? It's driving me insaine. A workable team with good Aerial Raves that include Jin? I think that one is impossible. I must use JIN! A servbot combo by any chance? KDC listed the cyke combo. As for Jin, Doom/Jin or Storm/Jin should work well. You can combo into super with them and then DHC to Jin's typhoon for a lot of damage. Servbot combo: (corner) J.Fierce+Sentinel Gamma Assist, D.S.Jab -> S.Strong XX Chuushoku Rush (must be Gamma Assist), C.short -> S.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward -> S.J.Fierce. I came up with this a while back, but I'm not sure if that is exactly what it was. Other than assists, Servbot can't really combo well. Actually, Servbot really sucks. He has nothing that makes him good, and he does no damage. All he has in his Gamma type Chuushoku Rush super, which means he has to have someone battery for him. Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:29:2001 05:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Also, Whos better... Guile or Charlie and what would you say they are on a scale of (1-20) 20 being the best and 1 being the worst... also, can soemoen break them down for me? I mean like say what they are good at... their str and weaknesses, and who they work well with plz... I don't rate on a point scale. i rate on how well they fight against top tier. Basically, they are fairly similar in terms of basic moves, but it's all about who you pair them with. Charlie with a good lockdown assist is good against rushdown because of the Moonsault Slash. Guile is good because of the no-charge air Flash kick the double hit C.Roundhouse. Both of them have combo-able supers although they don't do much damage. I don't play either of them very often though. Posted by SHGL fan on 05:30:2001 05:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL I don't rate on a point scale. i rate on how well they fight against top tier. Basically, they are fairly similar in terms of basic moves, but it's all about who you pair them with. Charlie with a good lockdown assist is good against rushdown because of the Moonsault Slash. Guile is good because of the no-charge air Flash kick the double hit C.Roundhouse. Both of them have combo-able supers although they don't do much damage. I don't play either of them very often though. What about the ECC6, Fluffy? I wanna know about Tron assist and the new stuff. Did you placed well? Posted by FluffyXXL on 05:30:2001 06:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by SHGL fan What about the ECC6, Fluffy? I wanna know about Tron assist and the new stuff. Did you placed well? i'm going to post about this tomorrow, probably in general gaming. Just know that my name wasn't in the top four, but that didn't mean I didn't take fifth (ok, not in MVC2, but in ST) Posted by teammember001 on 05:31:2001 05:22 AM: Congrats for 5th, Fluffy. I hope you have lots of new tactics at MvC2 to share with us. Until the next time Posted by cheese_master on 05:31:2001 06:09 PM: FluffyXXL--- I play Sent/BH and so do others. So I was wondering the various ways to escape the Sent/BH trap and where the holes are. And is there any what to escape it if they do this... c hp+BH assist XX in lk drone, c hp, HSF repeat till out of supers. I was also wondering about some strats for Mag against Sent/BH/CapCom... like how does he escape the trap and what methods of rushdown should do against this squad? Posted by Tuff Daddy on 05:31:2001 08:18 PM: Yo Fluff. I'm pretty sure I saw this once but, what is the exact pattern for the Strider/Doom Trap? I know it consists of throwing dog/birds, calling Oros, teleporting above the opponent, then dropping Doom behind them. I am assuming I have it wrong because I just started playing Strider/Doom. Help from anyone else would be helpful too. Thanks in advance, T. Diddy Posted by Tuff Daddy on 06:01:2001 12:42 PM: -bump- Posted by battlefield on 06:02:2001 05:08 AM: After saw the ECC vids, I was wondering what would be good to do with my cable to not get grabbed by Mags? I can block/j.back very well and I'm not caught at much regular combos, but his hrows always set me up to loose. What's your advice? Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:02:2001 08:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL i'm going to post about this tomorrow, probably in general gaming. Just know that my name wasn't in the top four, but that didn't mean I didn't take fifth (ok, not in MVC2, but in ST) Ok, so I got lazy. -=A3=- I got owned. Plain and simple. Although, my first round match looked very good. That happens to me sometimes in that game. I'm either very on or very off. I lost to James Paige (who I lost to at NEC as well) who eventually took 4th. He also kicked my ass up and down in the motel the night before, so it was no big shocker to me. -=CvS=- I don't remember too much of this. It started at 10pm and they stopped it at 4am to be reconviened at 11am. I think I my first loss was to Guile/Balrog, but I could be mistaken. Won a couple rounds, then lost. Once again, no big shock. -=ST=- Ok, I had no idea I was going to do this good. I had been playing the day before and I honestly didn't think it looked good. There were a couple guys I just didn't want to play. I got some sage advice from Cole though, and it really paid off. First round, I fought Sparatik. I was kinda worried cuz I know he plays Blanka (and I hate fighting Blanka) but I eventually pulled off the W, thanks to Cole's advice. Next round, Eddie Lee. He plays Vega too, so I picked my #2, E.Honda. To make a long story short, Eddie didn't know how to stop my Honda grabbing, and I won. He switches to Ryu. This is where things get really interesting. Very bad fight for honda, but I almost won. I was one tick away from winning, and I mistimed it. Darn. I switch up to Vega and pulled out a very close win. Mad respect for Eddie, considering I know he doesn't play this game much, but came close just on his reflexes and ability to read opponents. Third match was Mike D's O.Ken. Same shit as Ryu, but not as close. Next was BLT's O.Sagat. According to top players, I'm supposed to loose this match, but it's not like I cared. Still pulled out the win. At this point, I'm in the winners semi-s. It's me, Cole, some other guy (he took 4th and I can't remember his name at the moment) and Henry Cen. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded fighting Cole or the other guy, but I was worried about Henry. I had been talking with him earlier and he knew my weakness. I just wasn't sure if he'd do it, so I second guessed myself and picked Vega, thinking he's know I knew and pick Rog instead. My bad. He picked Honda and obliterated my Vega. Cole gave me some advice on this match as well and I forgot all of it. To make a long story short, I lost to Honda, and I even countered. I really need to learn someone other than Vega. Next, I was up against the other guy, who used Fei. I was slightly scared of Fei, that is until I beat the holy hell out of it. Then, he switched to Cammy and i pretty much paniced. I didn't know how to use, so I just kept using Vega and lost. Had I thought about it, I would have used Honda and maybe won. It was a little too late for that though (something like 9pm I think). I take 5th (yay!) -=MVC2=- Ah, and now what you all want to hear about. To make a long story short, my first match was at around 11pm. (Side note: total # of hours of sleep for me for the entire weekend = 6 for friday and saturday night combined) Needless to say, by the time i got to my first match, i was on autopilot. I lost to my own damned team. Heh. Straight to loosers. I won my first match on a DQ cuz my opponent had left (12:30am). I won another against someone else (1:30am I believe). And I eventually lost, I can't even remember who it was or what he used. I think it was around 3:30am. I literally crashed on the floor next to the machine for around 20 minutes before I dragged myself to a skeetball machine. Jinmaster did better than I did. He lost his first round (we both got byes so I think it was 2nd or 3rd round overall) to AK and then lost later in loosers to Justin Wong. I think he made top 12 or 16. As for the Tronne stuff, I saw two players use Tron, both from philly. Ak used Mags/Storm/Tronne and basically punished helpers hard. It wasn't anything new, just something we hadn't faced in a while. Jinmaster lost to him first round. I don't remember too much (i was very tired) but i know that wasn't Jin's best effort. Then again, i don't know if that was AK's best either. That was the only bad thing about this tourney is that it became an Iron Man challenge after about midnight. If you could stay awake, then you won. If you weren't all there (like me), you lost. The other player was Will martin. He used this really bizarre Spiral/Tronne rushdown/trap thing. He called Tronne close to you and teleported, so if you tried to punish, you got hit by something. Either Tronne would hit you or Spiral would teleport behind you and hurt you. Out of the tourney, I played it once and I got beat, but I didn't want to try too hard. I just kinda had the general attitude that if it looked like I was weak against something I could actually beat, then if I played people who were watching me get beat, they'd use the same shit that I knew how to beat against me. Weird logic, but it works. If I had to face it later, I would have went with Doom/Storm/Sent probably. Other than that, the topic of what happened to ricky at ECC has been discussed to death, so I won't say anything. I've already posted about it somewhere. Just run a search if you really want to see. It was a cool tourney, up until the MVC2 ended up running until 9:30am and our ride worked at the arcade and couldn't give us a ride to the motel. We ended up wasting money on a motel room we didn't use, cuz as soon as the tourney was over, we hopped over there, picked up our stuff, and had to head for the airport. It was fun, but I knowing how long it took, I wouldn't do it again probably. I think B5 will be like this probably, but at least there I'll have my own car so I can go as I please. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:02:2001 08:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by battlefield After saw the ECC vids, I was wondering what would be good to do with my cable to not get grabbed by Mags? I can block/j.back very well and I'm not caught at much regular combos, but his hrows always set me up to loose. What's your advice? J.short. If you know he'll throw, you can use Short to hit him off as he air dashes/jumps at you. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:02:2001 08:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by Tuff Daddy Yo Fluff. I'm pretty sure I saw this once but, what is the exact pattern for the Strider/Doom Trap? I know it consists of throwing dog/birds, calling Oros, teleporting above the opponent, then dropping Doom behind them. I am assuming I have it wrong because I just started playing Strider/Doom. Help from anyone else would be helpful too. Thanks in advance, T. Diddy There is no exact pattern. If there is, then I don't know it. Mostly, you just have to get an ouro out. Easiest way is to call doom and teleport. Make them block on your way down, so you push them into Doom. this is a free ouro call. Once it's activated, there's nothing your opponent can do to hit you or Doom and get out. Throw out rings and do dashing jabs, as it throws rings. Then, you want to call Doom right before Ouro ends and either teleport (to do again and push opponent into corner with more Ouro) or throw kitties, maybe a bird, or maybe drop a bomb. Once you get them into the corner, it's really hard to get out and most people eventually get hit by a C.short. There's a good air combo to use in the corner that allows you to land fast and call Doom before your opponent gets up, but I don't know it. I'll get back to you on that one. Posted by battlefield on 06:04:2001 05:46 AM: Fluffy, after played the best at WC and EC, do you have a formed opinion of what are the best teams? And what chracters do you think I must learn? Thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:04:2001 11:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by battlefield Fluffy, after played the best at WC and EC, do you have a formed opinion of what are the best teams? And what chracters do you think I must learn? Thanks Keep in mind, this is my opinion. I honestly don't share the same opinion as others. Back when everyone said that Doom was the top character in the game, I was saying Storm. Now, everyone is saying Storm, and I say it's Spiral. That's the way things go sometimes. The best teams in the game don't really involve team work that much. It's usually just being able to do one good trap for a long enough time to gain a lead, and then either exploiting the lead or running away. Spiral/Cable/Sent -This team is just too good. If spiral is played well, then you practially have to use a counter team to beat it. Most conventional teams won't beat it. No rushdown should, including Mags. I also can't think of any non-top tier characters that will give Spiral a competitive match. Maybe War Machine, and that's a big maybe. Spiral will beat Cable starting, Sentinel, Storm, Magneto, and BH (without commando). Also, having Cable in the backfield is just too good. Spiral builds all the meter, doens't use it, and can either use knives to get a safe switch or you can counter to AHVB against mid-game threats like Sent/BH trap. Sentinel 2nd looses to Cable 2nd in this principle alone. Sent can never C.Fierce when Cable is in the backfield with meter ready. Sentinel has to stomp, which means he can't be chipping. Then again, with Spiral in point, he doesn't get to chip much anyway. Strider/Doom/Commando -This is #2 team IMO. It's also one of the best counter teams in the game. For some reason, any team that beats Cable solidly seems to loose to this. I think the match between Strider/Doom/Commando and Spiral/Cable/Sent is slightly in Strider's favor, but only slightly. Strider/Doom beats all rushdown, handles keepaway like Cable pretty good, and SJing characters like BH and Storm have to worry about Commando while their up there. THe whole point behind this team is to get as large of a lead as you can with Strider. Most people will let Strider die and usually have enough of a lead to not worry. If you can safely get another character in to save strider would probably be better though. It's so hard to kill Strider sometimes, especially if he's coming back in after starting. Blackheart/Sentinel/Commando -Another solid team, #3 IMO. BH/Commando is very good. Then, when you have meter, Sent/Bh trap is just too good. After the meter is gone, you have Sent/Commando flying stomping strat. Everything in this team is just too good. You just have to keep everyone alive on it. If you play BH till he dies, you'll loose. You have to keep everyone alive on this team in order for it to work. This team is also weak against Strider/Doom, although it gives Spiral/Sent a run for it's money. That fight isn't won by BH vs Spiral however, it's won on the Sent/Commando vs Cable/Sent fight. These IMO are the top teams. They are the ones that are proven tournament winning teams. There are other good teams, which I'll list, but most don't stack up to these three. Cable/Y-(or A-)Storm/Psylocke (or Commando) -Solid, but you sometimes need the A-Storm assist or you need the Commando instead of Pslyocke, and that can create first match losses. Magneto/A-Storm/Psylocke -Good rushdown team. Although, i think this is the best variant on any magneto team. Magneto without Psylocke is just a handicap. Storm 2nd covers anything you mess ups, which shouldn't happen, but occasionally do with a character so involving so much joystick manipulation. Iron Man teams -This is mostly due to what the japanese have posted about him, but I think he's still a solid character and definitely a threat. It's a lot like fighting Magento, make one wrong move and you loose a character. I just don't think he fits in with any team tremendously well. The best IM variant I've seen is probably IM/A-Storm/Psylocke, although i've also seen IM/Cable/Psylocke and my personal favorite is B-Magneto/IM/Psylocke. I think IM is so much more of a threat in the middle stages of the game than in the very beginning, especially with the throw into assist into infinite. Way too good. A good Iron Man should be able to kill a character consistently just by hitting one C.Short+Psylocke AAA -> C.Strong into infinite. A great Iron Man can do the same without the Psylocke assist. I still have yet to see that done in the States however. There are good IMs, but none are the infinite combo machines that the Japanese appear to be. Blackheart/Cable/Cyke -This is a lot like BH/Sent/Commando, but cyke assist doesn't offer as much control as Commando AAA does. This team isn't geared towards control though, it's geared towards landing Bh/Cyke combo into infinite. Landing an infinite builds you meter (and your opponent btw) but that doesn't matter cuz you have Cable as your outlet, which will beat every other outlet in the game, except Strider/Doom or another Cable. The option of switching to Cable/BH to start is also great, as Cable/BH just rapes some characters on point. Doom/Storm/Sentinel (or AAA) -Team Viscant. It was put together to beat Spiral, but I think it trancends that. Doom/Storm is ultimate ground control. I haven't really seen anyone but Viscant play this team well, but I think that's because no one else had the Doom that Viscant does. Doom and Storm are very deep and have lots of options, and most people don't know when they should be rushing down and when they should be keeping away. Once you know the matchups, it becomes a very good team. Doom/Cable/Blackheart -Team Nyte. Another good team. Gives Spiral problems. Doom/BH to build meter, at the same time chipping a bit, and then countering to Cable to unload. Once Cable gets you the lead, your opponent has to rush down, and they run into Doom assist. Once again, the option to switch to Cable starting with BH assist. IMO, Cable/BH is way under-rated. It just owns some characters on point. The above all good teams. You will see these in top 5s of tourneys, but I don't think they are the creme d'la creme of MVC2. I would consider these 2nd tier teams. Below are some other things I want to mention, mostly because they are what I feel to be solid non-top tier teams that just haven't had someone play them enough yet. This is the kind of stuff you can see winning against your local mall scrubs, not actual tournaments. Morrigan -I've heard of a few Morrigans, and from what I hear, she's scary. I've seen Viscant play her with Cyke assist to combo Darkness Illusions for around 50% damage and the possibility to DHC. The Japanese mentioned playing her with A-Sent which combos the same way, for slightly more damage. She's still good rushdown, and good keepaway with air fireballs and air dash. Bonerine -I think Bonerine has a lot of potential. Most people don't play him anymore because of the damage handicap, but he's still the best there is at what he does. Still has mad rushdown, but he has to be more careful about AAAs. Bonerine/Sent trap is also good. Bonerine/Juggie has 100% combo. Bonerine/Psylocke is way too good for fast damage and helper punishment. There's just so many ways to use Bonerine, and no one does it. Storm/Hulk -This team has massive damage potential. White mentioned a team of Storm/Hulk/Tronne. I've nicknamed this team Damage Inc. Like, almost any order has the ability to deal massive amounts of damage through combos and DHCs. Storm/Hulk is particularly ugly, since you can land a non-mashable Gamma Crush off of Storm's normal air combo to Lightning Storm. Combine that with Tron assist on the ground, and you have an easy 100% that will kill a point with only 2 meters. Very few teams can boast that kind of damage potential so early, especially since it's so easy to safely build a meter with Storm. True, Hulk will get punished for it, but what at that point will honestly kill him? Especially with only 1-2 meters? He has stamina on his side. I might as well talk about Hulk too. People think he sucks. Hell, I think he sucks. But, the more I play him, especially with top tier like Storm and Doom, the more I think he might actually be worth something. Especially with his Gamma Crush. As mentioned above, Storm/Hulk allows you to land a Gamma Crush that cannot be mashed. It will nearly kill most AAAs as well. Storm/Hulk/Doom would be ideal to me. Ruby Heart -Ruby is good. She's honestly one of the hardest characters for me to fight personally. I don't know if others feel that way, but if you spend some time learning her, she's very deadly. I think a lot of people just haven't found her a team with good synergy yet. The pillar move (Supr'mation) is great for ground control. Once you get it out, there's no going through it. Viscant was successful with a Ruby/Storm/Doom team. I think something like Ruby/Sent would be good as well. Iceman -I figured I had to mention him too, seeing as how I've been playing more Iceman lately. Everyone knows about Iceman's selective chipping, and that's what makes him win fights against teams that can't chip. You're supposed to play him as safe as possible and only go for Icebeam chipping when you're 100% sure you won't get hit. Defense in the key. But, he looses to Strider/Doom just like everyone else. Also, any Sent or Doom assist changes the game because it allows your opponent to catch up in the chip war. He's very powerful mid-game however. Once you have disabled whatever your opponent had to chip him, he comes in and protects any lead you'd have, and slightly increases it with every icebeam your opponent blocks. I like a team of Iceman/Sent, mostly cuz you can call Sent assist right before you throw with punch and get a free air combo out of it that can do an upwards of 70%. If you're near the corner, you can DHC to Sent and kill with it. 100% off of a throw is very nice. It allows you to actually pressure someone agressively with Iceman just by being near them. They know they can't get thrown or it's ggpo. Megaman -There is so much on these forums about Megaman, I don't really have to comment. Megaman/Sent is good. J.Fierce does way too much damage, more than a ground fierce, and adding Sent assist i the mix means even more punishment. Once Megaman gets a lead, you don't get it back unless you've got Cable with meter. There are also other fun things you can do with Megaman. He has a Spiral-esque safe switch with the leaf item that fits in nicely with his basic trap pattern. Megaman doesn't really make leads, he protects them. Anakaris -I still feel Anakaris is a great character. I think he would definitely make it into the 2nd tier, but no one plays him. People are turned off by the damage handicap. Also, his combos are insanely difficult to pull off IMO. I've tried learning them and have had very little success. They are very damaging however and if someone ever did get around to landing them with 90%+ accuracy, he's be very deadly. I also think he does very well against rushdown cuz of his slightly ranged limbs and ranged throw. Ranged throw alone gives him a slight edge, not to mention the amount of meter it builds. That's about it I think. Just keep in mind this is my opinion and not everyone will agree. I'm pretty sure some (if not most) top players won't agree with my assesment of some teams. Posted by *Dp on 06:05:2001 01:23 AM: I wanted to know is the general strat. to use with BH/Sent./Capcom against Cable or rush down in general. Posted by gamedata on 06:05:2001 04:38 AM: Fluffy, I didn't understand why strider/doom/commando isn't your first. It has a slight advantage against the 1# team, and kills many others. I didn't see anything at your post that would take thsi team out of first. So why do you think spiral/cable/sent should be the first? And how it works this iceman throw into sent? If you call Sent after the throw, I think the opponent will be already safe when the drones comes. Could you explain it with more details? BTW, fantastic post! Posted by Roundhouse on 06:05:2001 05:15 AM: Don't you think BH/Cable/Commando can be as good as BH/Sent/Comm? If not, why? And do you think the first isd at least a good counter to the second(since cable is a counter to sent?) thank you very much Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 05:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp I wanted to know is the general strat. to use with BH/Sent./Capcom against Cable or rush down in general. BH/AAA is actually pretty good against Cable. If it's Cable starting, you basically want to build meter by SJ.Roundhouses and control the ground with your assists. Punish helpers with Commando and you can actually get a decent rushdown out with Sent assist. While your assist is on the screen, you'll want to SJ to prevent Cable from AHVBing. If he tries to AHVB your helper, you should be able to get an angle out to hit an infinite. Depending on how much life Cable has, assuming you've been chipping him with helpers and poking with C.Short+Commando AAA -> C.Forward XX Inferno (normally i wouldn't recommend spending the meter for HOD btw. I'll explain later) you can either continue the infinite and kill Cable or just call Commando. If you have the opportunity to kill Cable, take it. Most teams that start Cable don't have anything to stop Sentinel later, so kill him. If you're fighting Cable 2nd, then your match is much tougher. You have to prevent his battery from building meter or kill it fast. If Cable's battery ever gets 3+ meters, the fight is pretty much over. It really depends on how much life BH has. If you can kill the battery before Cable gets in, then you still have a chance. Your helpers will heal, and you can still build meter against him with BH and be safe. You have to watch for when Cable SJs up with you. The rest of this fight will involve you running and your opponent trying to catch you with AHVBs. At some point in the match, your opponent will probably try to chip you with AHVBs. If he does this, just take it. Hopefully BH will live, and that is your que to Inferno XX HOD DHC Hyper Sentinel Force and chip Cable as much a possible with Sent/BH before Cable gets a meter. Just to let you know, these are all best case senarios. Worst case, Cable will be 2nd and the battery will build up to 5 meters. If that happens, you're in for a very tough fight. More than likely, you'll loose. You have to keep BH as long as possible cuz Sentinel can't handle Cable. If sentinel gets in and you try to chip at all with Sent/BH trap, you are risking a Cable counter to AHVB killing both characters. If you can keep the match close and keep BH alive for the whole thing, then you can eventually chip with Sent/Bh trap safely by repeating C.Fierce+BH XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX HSF. BH/Sent also chips well, but it's not as safe and takes much longer. This is your safest chip option, and all others will open you up to AHVB. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 05:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by gamedata Fluffy, I didn't understand why strider/doom/commando isn't your first. It has a slight advantage against the 1# team, and kills many others. I didn't see anything at your post that would take thsi team out of first. So why do you think spiral/cable/sent should be the first? And how it works this iceman throw into sent? If you call Sent after the throw, I think the opponent will be already safe when the drones comes. Could you explain it with more details? BTW, fantastic post! Cuz anyone that picks a good AAA could cause Strider/Doom to loose. In order to win, Strider has to either punish an assist with Commando or get a trap going with Sent. IMO, Strider is the one that has to decide and also has to be ultra-patient. Against some characters, the hesitation and mean the difference between winning and loosing. IMO, Spiral/Cable/Sentinel doesn't have as easy a counter. A well played Spiral really doesn't have a solid counter, cept maybe Strider/Doom. Flat out, Spiral/Cable/Sentinel will win more fights then Strider/Doom/Commando. Iceman/Sent thing works like this. There's no real name for it, but from now on I'm going to refer to this type of thing as assist-throw combos. That's basically what you do is call and assist a split second before you throw. The japanese used Dhalsim's assist with Iron Man in an assist-throw combo to combo IM's infinite. Ever since then, I've been messing around with this assist-throw thing and came up with all kinds of different ones that work. This was one of them. When you are about to throw with Iceman, call Y-Sentinel assist right before you do the Fierce throw. If you do, Sent will call the drones and Iceman will throw your opponent into the drones. Iceman recovers fast enough to get off a C.Roundhouse right off of it. it takes some timing to get used to, but it's easy enough. After that, you can use an air combo, I use S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Arctic Attack. It does a lot of damage. You can DHC to HSF as well, but that requires a lot of timing, and leads to 80-90% damage. It's also easier to combo in the corner and if you do, it can kill. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 07:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by Roundhouse Don't you think BH/Cable/Commando can be as good as BH/Sent/Comm? If not, why? And do you think the first isd at least a good counter to the second(since cable is a counter to sent?) thank you very much Jinmaster thinks Cable is better, but he's a Cable hoe=P. The main reason I like Sent on that team instead of Cable is cuz of the Sent/Bh chipping. Cable is no where near as effective as the Sent/Bh engine, and he also looses to Storm, where I don't see Sent/Bh having that weakness, especially with meter. The only situation where I see Cable being significantly better than Sent is when you're up against Sent/BH. So to answer your second question, yes, BH/Cable/Commando does counter BH/Sent/Commando IMO. Unless you can find a way to kill Commando before Cable gets in, there's not much hope. Posted by Bruton on 06:05:2001 03:24 PM: Hey Fluffy, I have a lot of trouble loading pages on SRK(I think it's because I turn images off, and it forces the pages to grind to process it), but I just read this last page and I see you're still doing great work. I have a question about Iceman there... why do you skip the SJ.jab in the combo, is it due to damage scaling(and if so, is that relevant after comboing from Sent assist) or whiffing or something? Iceman can also the the ground short and optional medium depending on how deep he is, is that for damage scaling too? And I'm not sure if you know this, but my friend Anthony showed me that if you whiff an Icebeam after the SJ.MK, then quickly super cancel(think HG->MT, or Jill's charge->S.T.A.R.S), then Iceman will fall to about midscreen and the Arctic Attack will do more damage. Keep up the good work. Posted by ej_333 on 06:05:2001 03:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Iceman/Sent thing works like this. There's no real name for it, but from now on I'm going to refer to this type of thing as assist-throw combos. That's basically what you do is call and assist a split second before you throw. The japanese used Dhalsim's assist with Iron Man in an assist-throw combo to combo IM's infinite. Ever since then, I've been messing around with this assist-throw thing and came up with all kinds of different ones that work. This was one of them. When you are about to throw with Iceman, call Y-Sentinel assist right before you do the Fierce throw. If you do, Sent will call the drones and Iceman will throw your opponent into the drones. Iceman recovers fast enough to get off a C.Roundhouse right off of it. it takes some timing to get used to, but it's easy enough. Hey, I've been messing around with that Iceman stuff, too, but I can't seem to consistently dash-in-combo with Iceman after Sent's drones hit, the opponent recovers in time sometimes. Which direction do you throw opponent towards? I usually throw the opponent away from Iceman & Sent, that is, I throw them away from the side where the drones enter. Do you throw the other way, or something? Maybe i just can't continue the combo cuz of my timing? Posted by Jinmaster on 06:05:2001 03:40 PM: Ej, What works for me is making sure I hit the assist button as close to when I hit the throw as possible. Then I just mash on c.roundhouse, no need to dash in. The launch combos off the last drone I think, as the last drone is usually the one to hit. Posted by *Dp on 06:05:2001 06:06 PM: I was wondering could you give your opinion on the way Justin plays? Also about iceman have you had any success with him in any tournys? I myself have been using him for a while now. With iceman it seems there is only so much you can do (SJ up Down rock+down iceman, rush in for a combo every now and then) if you try anything else your more than likely to lose. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 06:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bruton Hey Fluffy, I have a lot of trouble loading pages on SRK(I think it's because I turn images off, and it forces the pages to grind to process it), but I just read this last page and I see you're still doing great work. I have a question about Iceman there... why do you skip the SJ.jab in the combo, is it due to damage scaling(and if so, is that relevant after comboing from Sent assist) or whiffing or something? Iceman can also the the ground short and optional medium depending on how deep he is, is that for damage scaling too? And I'm not sure if you know this, but my friend Anthony showed me that if you whiff an Icebeam after the SJ.MK, then quickly super cancel(think HG->MT, or Jill's charge->S.T.A.R.S), then Iceman will fall to about midscreen and the Arctic Attack will do more damage. Actually, I did know about that and I posted about that a couple pages back. The only thing is that it's very difficult to pull off in a clutch situation and I'd rather take the guaranteed damage over the possibility of slightly more damage. As for the combo, I skip the jab cuz the Arctic Attack does slightly more damage overall if you use this method of launching. If you really want to pack on the damage, you can do a S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Ice Avalance XX Arctic Attack. It is slightly character specific as it won't connect on light characters like Spiral. It still does lots of damage to big guys though. Posted by Bruton on 06:05:2001 06:28 PM: Fluffy: Ahhh, okay, thanks. I didn't know that you could toss an Avalanche in there on big characters... thanks! Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 07:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bruton Fluffy: Ahhh, okay, thanks. I didn't know that you could toss an Avalanche in there on big characters... thanks! Actually, it's the same principle as whiffing the Icebeam. All you need to do is cancel into the Arctic Attack as soon as you activate the make you descend slower. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 09:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp I was wondering could you give your opinion on the way Justin plays? Also about iceman have you had any success with him in any tournys? I myself have been using him for a while now. With iceman it seems there is only so much you can do (SJ up Down rock+down iceman, rush in for a combo every now and then) if you try anything else your more than likely to lose. I've only seen Justin play twice, and didn't really pay too much attention yet. I'm no more qualified to make an analysis on his play ability than anyone from EC would be on Ricky's. I hear he's going to MWC, and I know there will be a stronger WC presence there, so needless to say it will be interesting. I already know who my money's on... As for Iceman, you have to stick with what's safe. Granted, he has less safe things than other characters, but he's still useful. As for in tournaments, I think if someone did play him regularly and knew the match-ups, especially how to handle the tough ones with Doom assist and Sentinel assist (not Strider/Doom or Spiral/Sent though) then he'd be useful. I've used him in a tournament once against a kid using Akuma/Cable/Psylocke. Oddly enough, I beat him in my first round and lost to him later in the loosers using BH/Sent/CapCom. Did Iceman make the difference? Maybe. Just to let you know, there haven't been many tournaments in Norcal lately. The last one at SVGL was one that I ended up running. We don't have weekly tourneys anymore. We're lucky if MVC2 gets a monthly tourney. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 09:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by Jinmaster Ej, What works for me is making sure I hit the assist button as close to when I hit the throw as possible. Then I just mash on c.roundhouse, no need to dash in. The launch combos off the last drone I think, as the last drone is usually the one to hit. You call Sent right before you throw. Iceman's recovery off of the throw is so very fast. Once you throw, you end up throwing them into the drones (the drones pass you as Iceman his doing his throw) and you C.Roundhouse ASAP for the launch. It's a juggle, not an OTG. Posted by ej_333 on 06:05:2001 09:38 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You call Sent right before you throw. Iceman's recovery off of the throw is so very fast. Once you throw, you end up throwing them into the drones (the drones pass you as Iceman his doing his throw) and you C.Roundhouse ASAP for the launch. It's a juggle, not an OTG. I do that, calling Sent right before Iceman's throw. But I still couldn't consistently combo afterwards. But then again, I was doing it mostly during heat of battle, not practice or anything (i dont have a DC at home). Wait, are you assuming Iceman's in the corner? I've never been able to throw+assist a cornered opponent, maybe that's why I have probs with that throw combo. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:05:2001 10:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by ej_333 I do that, calling Sent right before Iceman's throw. But I still couldn't consistently combo afterwards. But then again, I was doing it mostly during heat of battle, not practice or anything (i dont have a DC at home). Wait, are you assuming Iceman's in the corner? I've never been able to throw+assist a cornered opponent, maybe that's why I have probs with that throw combo. In the corner, do the same thing, but with kick throw. what happens is that he throws his opponent behind him, and into the sent assist. Then, the opponent goes back into the corner and you can throw again. Nice little option. Iceman can combo off of throws in the corner without any assist. Posted by StarFire on 06:05:2001 10:24 PM: Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but... What's the best way to guard break with Cable? Normally I just jump up, land, and then AHVB with tiger knee. But in most videos and tapes I see more people jumping forward and AHVB before they actually land. Does this make it easier to connect multiple AHVBs or is this because of character size? One thing I also noticed though was that if I jump forward and AHVB before I land, then my oponent can take the fierce bullet by not blocking and safely block the AHVB. Whereas if I land then AHVB they will eat both the bullet and AHVB, but it's difficult to connect multiple supers due to the direction of the beam and them "popping out." I'm not totally sure if all my observations are correct though, or even if I'm making too much sense. So that's why I'm asking you what's the exact and best way to guard break with Cable. My second question is about wavedashing. I'm just now learning to wavedash and I think it's unbelievably great for characters like Storm. My question is, Is it possible to overdue wavedashing? I get into the habit of wavedashing a lot when a normal dash will do, so I'm wondering is it possible to punish someone who wavedashes over a normal dash? So does a normal dash have an advantage over a wavedash? Kind of confusing question I guess but I haven't had much chance to playtest this agaisnt great competition yet. -Thanks- Posted by battlefield on 06:07:2001 05:44 AM: My friend plays a very good Sent/Cable/BH team. I play spiral/cable/sent against him and usually lost at the spiral vs sent fight. He can't be locked and BH makes charging knives very hard. He keeps flying and hits my Sent or dodges my cable if I call assists to got space. If I try to load knives after call cable b, he kicks the hell out of cable b. He calls Bh assist and does a full screen flying RP or more close fly cancel kicks, between other options. My problem is sent flying with bh assist. How can I beat him with Spiral? Another thing is that I beat him using cable/spiral/commando. I kind of lock his sentinel full screen using guns, vbs and spiral assist. But when he does a HSF, sometimes it goes through my cable/spiral trap and hits my both characters. If I avoid doing what I do(things like j.HP+spiral, j. viper beam) I can't control the fight well enough and lose to his fly cancel. So what can I do to overcome this problem? Thanks Posted by battlefield on 06:07:2001 05:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik Ummm... Blackheart's REAL infinite (eternal sj.rh juggle) will NOT undizzy. If you refer to the ground infinite (rh, walk up, s.rh, repeat) then that's not a real infinite (as it can be shaken out of by a baby). Are you sure? I can swear I saw it undizzying with 55/60 hits or something... Posted by Sho 2 on 06:07:2001 06:26 AM: sorry, about this FluffyXXL but I really need feedback. This about my thread on General Discussion about one of story characters and I am encouraging everyone to look at it, at least. It would be nice if you reply. I am going to do this on all the stickys (MY EVIL PLAN). Um... yeah, well anyway here is your thread back. Posted by The Green Trench Coat on 06:07:2001 04:15 PM: Ive got a question anyways a while back I asked this and nobody seemed to have a good answer for the randomness of this situation You and I are in the middle of a battle I'm using cammy you are using who ever you want. In the midst of everything I pull out a killerbee Cammy spins back to one side of the screen then dashes over you to the other side.... but then... ricochets of the wall to hit you for the first hit of the 5 hit killer bee. What's up with that. Does my ilustration make sense to you? I've seen Ms. White do some pretty amazing things.. I've even see her kick up her opponent from the ground for the first hit of KBA. Any clue on how I can do things like this on command? While we are talking about Ms.White I'm having a little trouble nailing the aircombo into the throw for short popup combo to kba any advice or correspondence would be greatly appreciated Posted by DaBomb963 on 06:07:2001 05:49 PM: Tournements Hey fluffy, I just started playing in tournements this year, and i havnt done much travleing, i did play in chicago, but ive been trying to put together a "Tournement Team" but i really havnt found one. I really dont like most of the "top tier" characters because id rather win by skill, and not by who can press their assist the fastest or who can use spirals swords quicker.... But the best ive ever placed was 3rd with my teams of akuma, capcom, and strider or Akuma, sakura, capcom So ive been trying to think what would work best for me.... I was thinkin about spiral, mega, doom or strider, doom, BH what do you think? also, can you tell me how to play with spiral, like how to use her.... Posted by cheese_master on 06:07:2001 07:36 PM: Reposting because you never answered the questions.... FluffyXXL--- I play Sent/BH and so do others. So I was wondering the various ways to escape the Sent/BH trap and where the holes are. And is there any what to escape it if they do this... c hp+BH assist XX in lk drone, c hp, HSF repeat till out of supers. I was also wondering about some strats for Mag against Sent/BH/CapCom... like how does he escape the trap and what methods of rushdown should do against this squad? Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 07:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by StarFire Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but... What's the best way to guard break with Cable? Normally I just jump up, land, and then AHVB with tiger knee. But in most videos and tapes I see more people jumping forward and AHVB before they actually land. Does this make it easier to connect multiple AHVBs or is this because of character size? One thing I also noticed though was that if I jump forward and AHVB before I land, then my oponent can take the fierce bullet by not blocking and safely block the AHVB. Whereas if I land then AHVB they will eat both the bullet and AHVB, but it's difficult to connect multiple supers due to the direction of the beam and them "popping out." I'm not totally sure if all my observations are correct though, or even if I'm making too much sense. So that's why I'm asking you what's the exact and best way to guard break with Cable. My second question is about wavedashing. I'm just now learning to wavedash and I think it's unbelievably great for characters like Storm. My question is, Is it possible to overdue wavedashing? I get into the habit of wavedashing a lot when a normal dash will do, so I'm wondering is it possible to punish someone who wavedashes over a normal dash? So does a normal dash have an advantage over a wavedash? Kind of confusing question I guess but I haven't had much chance to playtest this agaisnt great competition yet. -Thanks- For the guard break, it doesn't matter as far as I know. As long as they block the bullet, your job is done. I haven't heard of any advangate to jumping forward with the bullet, except maybe for a different timing, as there is less distance for the bullet to travel if you jump forward. You can't really overdue wavedashing. Wave dashes are as safe if not safer than a regular dash. Most times that i've found wavedashing to be useful are usually times when I just need to cover a lot of ground really fast. Like, when an opponent SJs and I want to be near him when he lands or if I'm wave dashing under Sent trap. There are also a few other specific instances where wavedashing can be useful, but there really isn't a time when it can be overused. At least that I know of. Posted by cheese_master on 06:07:2001 07:53 PM: Reposting because you never answered the questions.... FluffyXXL--- I play Sent/BH and so do others. So I was wondering the various ways to escape the Sent/BH trap and where the holes are. And is there any what to escape it if they do this... c hp+BH assist XX in lk drone, c hp, HSF repeat till out of supers. I was also wondering about some strats for Mag against Sent/BH/CapCom... like how does he escape the trap and what methods of rushdown should do against this squad? Posted by Dasrik on 06:07:2001 08:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by The Green Trench Coat Ive got a question anyways a while back I asked this and nobody seemed to have a good answer for the randomness of this situation You and I are in the middle of a battle I'm using cammy you are using who ever you want. In the midst of everything I pull out a killerbee Cammy spins back to one side of the screen then dashes over you to the other side.... but then... ricochets of the wall to hit you for the first hit of the 5 hit killer bee. What's up with that. Does my ilustration make sense to you? I've seen Ms. White do some pretty amazing things.. I've even see her kick up her opponent from the ground for the first hit of KBA. Any clue on how I can do things like this on command? While we are talking about Ms.White I'm having a little trouble nailing the aircombo into the throw for short popup combo to kba any advice or correspondence would be greatly appreciated The only way I've seen this done reliably is if KBA/Maximum Spider hits an assist. If the initial kick connects with the assists then Cammy/Spidey will go through with the entire super, and that begins with a kick from another side, which is really hard to block if you don't see it coming. Posted by Jakuda on 06:07:2001 08:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Reposting because you never answered the questions.... FluffyXXL--- I play Sent/BH and so do others. So I was wondering the various ways to escape the Sent/BH trap and where the holes are. And is there any what to escape it if they do this... c hp+BH assist XX in lk drone, c hp, HSF repeat till out of supers. I was also wondering about some strats for Mag against Sent/BH/CapCom... like how does he escape the trap and what methods of rushdown should do against this squad? If you have cable, the hole you should look for is right after sentinel's beam/arm chips you. AHVB away. Even if he does the fierce/call bh, call drones, you can ahvb after you block fierce+BH inferno. BH's inferno is deceiving b/c you'd think that the whole pillar hits you the whole time, but once you block it, (if you stay at the bottom), you are free to ahvb afterwards. If you wait a bit too long, the drones will hit you. If you are having problems getting the timing, you can call an assist like cyclops to take the drone hits, so you have more time. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 09:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by battlefield My friend plays a very good Sent/Cable/BH team. I play spiral/cable/sent against him and usually lost at the spiral vs sent fight. He can't be locked and BH makes charging knives very hard. He keeps flying and hits my Sent or dodges my cable if I call assists to got space. If I try to load knives after call cable b, he kicks the hell out of cable b. He calls Bh assist and does a full screen flying RP or more close fly cancel kicks, between other options. My problem is sent flying with bh assist. How can I beat him with Spiral? Another thing is that I beat him using cable/spiral/commando. I kind of lock his sentinel full screen using guns, vbs and spiral assist. But when he does a HSF, sometimes it goes through my cable/spiral trap and hits my both characters. If I avoid doing what I do(things like j.HP+spiral, j. viper beam) I can't control the fight well enough and lose to his fly cancel. So what can I do to overcome this problem? Thanks Starting Cable is a good idea if your Spiral can't handle it. There are usually spots where you can get summon knives with Spiral in between Sent/Bh trap, as long as sent doesn't have or use his meter to keep you down. Anyway, if you're going to start Cable, you are going to have to be very careful and use your meter very wisely. Any time you AHVB, you're going to want to make sure you're hitting both Sent and BH. You can either go for Sentinel or BH (preferably hitting both) but i'd recommend just playing through the match and seeing which one looks like you can kill it the easiest. You're going to want to concentrate the majority of your AHVBs on BH but at the same time build meter and keep sent off of you. You need to learn how to SJ put of Sent/bh trap. Once you do, then you can throw a grenade to make him block and land and you might be able to do another round of S.Fiercex4+Spiral XX Jab-Viper Beam on the ground and then SJ again. When sent can call BH and you SJ, just block and wait to see if BH's icon appears at the bottom of the screen. If it doesn't throw a grenade. You also want to keep Spiral from taking damage, so use your AHVBs against his HSF and when you have no meter only call Spiral when you know she's not going to get hit. If there's doubt, don't do it. Once you have three meters, then it will be difficult for Sent to try anything and you really don't need to try to build more meter after that. You can squeeze one off here and there, but it usually takes around 3 separate AHVBs to kill Sentinel. If you use a meter earlier and hit Sent plus all of the chipping you're going, it will be difficult for him to try to do anything on you. What you do have to look out for is the counter to Cable. Once he gets enough meter to kill you, he should be looking for it. That's when you have to be really careful. But, you can still use it to your advantage. Just watch the meter and try to notice if there is ever any time where he begins to turtle more than usual. Like, both of you will be at full screen and he'll do nothing. It's a little bit harder to notice when you're playing cable, mostly cuz you might mistake it as looking for the tech when he's actually afraid of AHVB. In any case, if he starts to turtle, then try to rushdown. He'll either be forced to call an assist (AHVB that shit) or at least do something (AHVB that shit) or he'll do nothing and get thrown around (throw that mofo). In any case, you job is to be in his face so if he tries to counter, you won't be at a good enough range to make it worth it for him. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 09:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik The only way I've seen this done reliably is if KBA/Maximum Spider hits an assist. If the initial kick connects with the assists then Cammy/Spidey will go through with the entire super, and that begins with a kick from another side, which is really hard to block if you don't see it coming. Actually, if Cammy hits the assist, she bounces off. That is the weakness of KBA. She stops when she hits something. Kinda like Cannon Spike. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 09:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by battlefield Are you sure? I can swear I saw it undizzying with 55/60 hits or something... BH's S.J.Roundhouse infinite will undizzy. I've figured out a combo that will lead to an option to land another infinite and even then, it will undizzy at around 10% life I think. Still does hella damage though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 09:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by The Green Trench Coat Ive got a question anyways a while back I asked this and nobody seemed to have a good answer for the randomness of this situation You and I are in the middle of a battle I'm using cammy you are using who ever you want. In the midst of everything I pull out a killerbee Cammy spins back to one side of the screen then dashes over you to the other side.... but then... ricochets of the wall to hit you for the first hit of the 5 hit killer bee. What's up with that. Does my illustration make sense to you? I've seen Ms. White do some pretty amazing things.. I've even see her kick up her opponent from the ground for the first hit of KBA. Any clue on how I can do things like this on command? While we are talking about Ms.White I'm having a little trouble nailing the aircombo into the throw for short popup combo to kba any advice or correspondence would be greatly appreciated Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never seen that happen. It sounds like Cammy is hitting too high, but when i've seen that before it's usually her not hitting at all. As for the combo, I don't quite know which one you are talking about. Any more description? Posted by The Green Trench Coat on 06:07:2001 10:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Honestly, I'm not sure. I've never seen that happen. It sounds like Cammy is hitting too high, but when i've seen that before it's usually her not hitting at all. As for the combo, I don't quite know which one you are talking about. Any more description? I'm surprised you havent. At first I thought it was just a fluke thing but ... then It happened a couple of times when I was using her at CF. she passes over the opponents head and ricochets to hit the opponent from behind.. I've also seen her do that to ricoche and hit her opponent otg. I guess you'll have to just wittness it. It's almost like she's got a magnet in her boot or something.. I don't know. The combo I'm talking about is the one where instead of doing aircombo into cannondrill xx kba she does aircombo to throw lands with jab popup into aircombo xx cannondrill xx kba I need a little guidance with the timing on that. Hope that makes a little more sense. Posted by The Green Trench Coat on 06:07:2001 10:15 PM: It's like she does s= start point for kba 1= opponent x= ricochet point h= first hit on KBA ->= indicate the path she takes ..= just to sustain the diagram | |s--- .... -->x | .. ..... .. <- | .. ... .. <- |----1h----- sorry thats the best way to describe it. When it happens It's completely unexpected.. but cool.. it would be awesome to command that to catch an opponent from behind.... (Realizes how weird that sounds coming from a gay guy) but still have you maybe heard anything about it? Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 10:31 PM: Re: Tournements quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Hey fluffy, I just started playing in tournements this year, and i havnt done much travleing, i did play in chicago, but ive been trying to put together a "Tournement Team" but i really havnt found one. I really dont like most of the "top tier" characters because id rather win by skill, and not by who can press their assist the fastest or who can use spirals swords quicker.... But the best ive ever placed was 3rd with my teams of akuma, capcom, and strider or Akuma, sakura, capcom So ive been trying to think what would work best for me.... I was thinkin about spiral, mega, doom or strider, doom, BH what do you think? also, can you tell me how to play with spiral, like how to use her.... How to play Spiral: Throw lots of knives. Start there. Most important thing is learning when and how to set up situaitons to call knives, then learning when to throw them. After that, work on WOS trap. I can't really teach you much, it's more experience than anything. As for "winning by skill", this usually gets associated by people who play to win and use top tier to do it. Everyone goes through the scrub phase when they start that usually starts with saying "[insert random tactic or characer] is cheap." However, if you keep in the community long enough, you'll grow out of that. Especially when you start to go to tounaments. See, most people confuse their definition of skill with playing good (rushing down, landing big combos). Playing good is a part of skill, not the whole thing. The other part of skill that most scrubs (pardon if I call you a scrub, but believe me, you'll grow out of it. Just know that around 2 years ago I was a scrub.) overlook is knowledge. Knowledge is part experience and part theory. So, when someone says "i don't use top tier cuz they're cheap" or "they aren't as fun", that person doesn't understand how to play at a high level. The point is, why play lower tier characters when they have less options and do less damage normally when I can play upper tier that have more options and better strategies. Playing upper tier doesn't mean you have less skill, it means you have more knowledge. Some of the scrubs at my local mall say that to me. I've tried to get them to stop using Guile and Jill, but they won't listen. I even where the SRK.com T-shirt and my FluffyXXL hat and they don't ever go or ask me about it. They say I'm "dishonorable" cuz I use "cheap characters" and i just continue to whoop the hell out of them. The better scrub has finally switched to Cable/IronMan/Iceman and does multiple AHVB and I hope that one day he discovers the joys of cyke AAA and guard breaks. Just once I would like to see one of them trade Guile for Storm for about a week and see how they like it. Anayway, they call me cheap cuz it's easier for them to do so. If they call me cheap, they can write off any losses as loosing to someone who's dishonorable instead of someone who just has more game knowledge and experience. Therefore, they never try to beat me, so they never get better. It does not take too much to learn more. A bit of searching on SRK.com or just be nice to your local dominator and see if he's friendly. If the scrubs at the mall asked me questions about the game, I'd gladly talk with them about it. The only guy who does is the manager and he's gotten way better from some of my advice. Anyway, just keep an open mind. When I do talk to people about the game, and when i recommend a character, the most common answer I get is "i don't play that character." My question is why not? How are you supposed to know what a character can do if you've never used it? If you know what a character can do, even if you don't play it, it will help you out later when you have to fight against it. Remembering all of his weaknesses and the holes in whatever traps or patterns used help you beat it later. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:07:2001 10:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Reposting because you never answered the questions.... FluffyXXL--- I play Sent/BH and so do others. So I was wondering the various ways to escape the Sent/BH trap and where the holes are. And is there any what to escape it if they do this... c hp+BH assist XX in lk drone, c hp, HSF repeat till out of supers. I was also wondering about some strats for Mag against Sent/BH/CapCom... like how does he escape the trap and what methods of rushdown should do against this squad? Ok, here's the patterns I know of S or C.Fierce+BH XX Short-Sentinel Force -You can wave dash under this with smaller characters. S or C.Fierce+BH XX Roundhouse-Sentinel Force -You can wave dash under this or SJ right as BH's Inferno disappears. Real crackerjack timing, but it's highly possible. Also, Cable can AHVB throw this as long as you do it right after the stun on the first hit of Inferno and if you do it low enough to the ground. Any higher than that and you'll hit the inferno. Also, if you have to mash up to hit the roundhouse drones or they'll continue and hit you out. S or C.Fierce+BH XX Short-Sentinel Force, C.Fierce... -You can SJ the C.Fierce I believe. Cable can AHVB it too. S or C.Fierce+BH XX Short-Sentinel Force, S.Fierce XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX HSF -AFAIK, there isn't a way for every character to escape this. I don't think characters can jump out if it's S.fierce. Cable can AHVB the S.Fierce. Other than that, just crouch and wait it out. S or C.Fierce+BH XX HSF, C.Fierce XX HSF -Can't get out of it. Just wait for him to run out of supers. FYI, you can counter to Cable XX AHVB every one of these on the first hit of the Inferno. As for using Magneto, you just have to SJ out when there's a helper on the screen and then air dash at mid height of your SJ and come down with Roundhouse. Once your on him, you have to stay on him. Throw the hell out of him and do repeated SJ.Roundhouse XX air dash downforward, more stuff to keep him on the ground and blocking so he can't call an assist. Posted by DaBomb963 on 06:08:2001 01:38 AM: Top Tier Thx Fluf.... can you tell me how to do spirals shapeshifter special, and also, can you tell me what you think of the teams i suggested in my last post or help me build a team? Posted by battlefield on 06:08:2001 05:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Starting Cable is a good idea if your Spiral can't handle it. There are usually spots where you can get summon knives with Spiral in between Sent/Bh trap, as long as sent doesn't have or use his meter to keep you down. Anyway, if you're going to start Cable, you are going to have to be very careful and use your meter very wisely. Any time you AHVB, you're going to want to make sure you're hitting both Sent and BH. You can either go for Sentinel or BH (preferably hitting both) but i'd recommend just playing through the match and seeing which one looks like you can kill it the easiest. You're going to want to concentrate the majority of your AHVBs on BH but at the same time build meter and keep sent off of you. You need to learn how to SJ put of Sent/bh trap. Once you do, then you can throw a grenade to make him block and land and you might be able to do another round of S.Fiercex4+Spiral XX Jab-Viper Beam on the ground and then SJ again. When sent can call BH and you SJ, just block and wait to see if BH's icon appears at the bottom of the screen. If it doesn't throw a grenade. You also want to keep Spiral from taking damage, so use your AHVBs against his HSF and when you have no meter only call Spiral when you know she's not going to get hit. If there's doubt, don't do it. Once you have three meters, then it will be difficult for Sent to try anything and you really don't need to try to build more meter after that. You can squeeze one off here and there, but it usually takes around 3 separate AHVBs to kill Sentinel. If you use a meter earlier and hit Sent plus all of the chipping you're going, it will be difficult for him to try to do anything on you. What you do have to look out for is the counter to Cable. Once he gets enough meter to kill you, he should be looking for it. That's when you have to be really careful. But, you can still use it to your advantage. Just watch the meter and try to notice if there is ever any time where he begins to turtle more than usual. Like, both of you will be at full screen and he'll do nothing. It's a little bit harder to notice when you're playing cable, mostly cuz you might mistake it as looking for the tech when he's actually afraid of AHVB. In any case, if he starts to turtle, then try to rushdown. He'll either be forced to call an assist (AHVB that shit) or at least do something (AHVB that shit) or he'll do nothing and get thrown around (throw that mofo). In any case, you job is to be in his face so if he tries to counter, you won't be at a good enough range to make it worth it for him. thanks, fluffy, but whats the tactic that I should try against it starting with spiral? If I didn't practice with her, I will never be able to have a complete team. And what about the HSF going through my cable/spiral traps? If I don't do the air vb after j. HP+spiral, I can't lock sent. If I do, sometimes he might HSF me. What should I do? And lastly, his Sent flies a lot(like Valle, just not as good of course). Should I change the cable strat for it? thanks a lot Posted by TexMex on 06:08:2001 05:28 AM: I was wonderin if anyone could school me on basic spiral strats. How to do her trap correctly (one where she jumps, wos, throws knives). Do you call your assist (my case sent) then superjump then wos? or do you reg jump wos at same time call assist? I"ve been praticing this team a lot facing Cable/capcom and I'm having a very hard time. I think the trick that I have to do to get it workin is superjump, wait to see if commando pops out, then wos and throw knives on my decent as well as up, but again waiting until Capcom assist is out to do wos. Can anyone give me any strats plz? Also any help on how to do spirals trap specifically w/ sent assist would help too. Posted by DarthSalamander on 06:08:2001 08:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL BH's S.J.Roundhouse infinite will undizzy. I've figured out a combo that will lead to an option to land another infinite and even then, it will undizzy at around 10% life I think. Still does hella damage though. As a BH user I must ask: What is it? Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:08:2001 08:54 PM: Re: Top Tier quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Thx Fluf.... can you tell me how to do spirals shapeshifter special, and also, can you tell me what you think of the teams i suggested in my last post or help me build a team? Strider/Doom/Bh Posted by TS on 06:08:2001 09:43 PM: some quick questions: 1. Can War Machine combo into his infite off of Cyke AAA? 2. How the hell do you super jump cancel his crouching Strong? That thing is over fast. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:08:2001 10:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander As a BH user I must ask: What is it? Hehe. I have to save some things for myself. Also, it's not done yet. It will be soon though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:08:2001 11:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS some quick questions: 1. Can War Machine combo into his infite off of Cyke AAA? 2. How the hell do you super jump cancel his crouching Strong? That thing is over fast. 1. Not that I know of. His attacks are slower, so it doesn't work the same 2. Same as Iron Man's. c.Strong, neutral, down, up+Jab, air dash straight, Jab, U.Fierce, infinite Posted by Fyrefox on 06:08:2001 11:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL 1. Not that I know of. His attacks are slower, so it doesn't work the same 2. Same as Iron Man's. c.Strong, neutral, down, up+Jab, air dash straight, Jab, U.Fierce, infinite Hey Fluff Im going to ask i have always have Megaman with him. I have Jill/megaman/the Shurma Gorath. I waz wondering what good teams or trap or good with Mega? Posted by TheBestMvC2Man on 06:09:2001 12:10 AM: list me some mag combos,and some combos with mag after he does the tempest combo..like following a magneto combo..tell me some configurations, please =) Posted by Mr. Bojangles on 06:09:2001 12:56 AM: Hey I've been working on a team of Guile and Storm, and I'm looking for someone to fill the third spot. Any thoughts? Thanks man. P.S. Please don't tell me not to use Guile. All my friends say not to use Guile. I like Guile, Guile's cool. Posted by Spider_Sting on 06:09:2001 01:45 AM: well storm can build the meter guile can use sonic hurricane to chip 3rd spot... hmmmm Anyone with a strong aaa im not too fond of guile's (personally) perhaps captain commando, psylocke or doom. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:12:2001 08:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by TexMex I was wonderin if anyone could school me on basic spiral strats. How to do her trap correctly (one where she jumps, wos, throws knives). Do you call your assist (my case sent) then superjump then wos? or do you reg jump wos at same time call assist? I"ve been praticing this team a lot facing Cable/capcom and I'm having a very hard time. I think the trick that I have to do to get it workin is superjump, wait to see if commando pops out, then wos and throw knives on my decent as well as up, but again waiting until Capcom assist is out to do wos. Can anyone give me any strats plz? Also any help on how to do spirals trap specifically w/ sent assist would help too. WOS is jump up, on the way down, throw three knives, land, jump, throw three more out while calling Sent assist and then call knives again, throw three on the way down... There are different variations on it as well, such as only throwing 2 knives on the way up, but I honestly don't know which characters they work better on. I don't play Spiral as much as I do other characters. A lot of her strategy is character specific. Especially on certain fights like against Sentinel, Storm, and Blackheart. It also helps to be good as sensing when your opponent will try to jump out, so you can attempt to land a combo. Snapbacks are really good for her, mostly cuz some AAAs allow you to break out of her trap easily and you can snapback in the assist and WOS it for a bit. This is a tremendous advantage to you, as your opponent either has to switch in manually (which could hurt, especially if you have 3 meters) or has to waste a meter to counter in a character. This team is all about building meter while your opponent is stuck in a trap and can't build any. Posted by TS on 06:13:2001 09:39 PM: Was wondering if there was any way to direct the lightning attacks in Storm's Lightning Storm air combo so that the opponent falls directly under you, or close to it. Wanted to set up some fancy DHCs (War Destroyer, Shin Shoryuken, etc)... Outside of your opponent being in the corner, that is. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:13:2001 11:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS Was wondering if there was any way to direct the lightning attacks in Storm's Lightning Storm air combo so that the opponent falls directly under you, or close to it. Wanted to set up some fancy DHCs (War Destroyer, Shin Shoryuken, etc)... Outside of your opponent being in the corner, that is. I think if you went straight, then up, it would work with WD, but maybe not shin shoryuken. SSRK doesn't combo well at that height. Posted by TS on 06:14:2001 12:32 AM: You actually get quite a bit of time to cancel a Lightning Storm. For example in the non-airdash version of the combo, the opponent can basically fall all the way to the ground, and you can still DHC into another super. Posted by SSJ2Gohan on 06:14:2001 02:08 AM: I need help with CapCom. Not in a assist but using him. Any strats or tactics would help, thanks Posted by TimeFlip on 06:14:2001 02:23 AM: Would you please explain Storm's infinite(s)? I don't mean the one vs. Sentinel. And would you explain the timing on Omega Red's jumping infinite (j.jp,j.jp,j.fp)? Thanx Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 06:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by TS You actually get quite a bit of time to cancel a Lightning Storm. For example in the non-airdash version of the combo, the opponent can basically fall all the way to the ground, and you can still DHC into another super. Actually, i was messing around with it and the best way to do it low to the ground is to S.roundhouse /\ Lightning Attack (UF) XX Lightning Storm, then DHC. It will DHC to SSRK, but it doesn't kill and it's 4 meters. Posted by cheese_master on 06:14:2001 09:22 AM: Fluffy... Whats the best way in your opinion to get out of the Wall of Swords Spiral/Sent bullshit? And is there anyway to do it without getting you assist totally raped? Also why the fuck is IM good against Spiral? I mean I don't understand cuz my IM usually beats most Spirals... but I really don't understand why he does and Cable doesn't. Posted by TexMex on 06:14:2001 07:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Fluffy... Whats the best way in your opinion to get out of the Wall of Swords Spiral/Sent bullshit? And is there anyway to do it without getting you assist totally raped? Also why the fuck is IM good against Spiral? I mean I don't understand cuz my IM usually beats most Spirals... but I really don't understand why he does and Cable doesn't. smartbombs Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 07:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by cheese_master Fluffy... Whats the best way in your opinion to get out of the Wall of Swords Spiral/Sent bullshit? And is there anyway to do it without getting you assist totally raped? Also why the fuck is IM good against Spiral? I mean I don't understand cuz my IM usually beats most Spirals... but I really don't understand why he does and Cable doesn't. -C.Fierce missle -Flight -8-way air dash -SJ.Smart Bombs -J.Fierce -Psylocke AAA is a really easy escape from WOS The C.Fierce missle and Smart Bombs are projectiles and once activated, they continue on until they hit something. C.Fierce goes through WOS untouched and Spiral usually will get hit in the foot by it. Unlike Cable's S.Fierce x4 however, if Spiral teleports to avoid it, she won't be able to punish you and you'll actually be able to punish her for it more than likely. Also, SJ.Smart Bombs is along the same principle, it throws things her direction and makes her block or get hit, both of which are to your advantage. Come down with the S.J.Fierce, and then call an assist or SJ.SmartBomb again or whatever. You can also air dash after Smart Bombs as well to get better leaverage. Cable can't air dash and the best he can do is drop grenades on Spiral, which are easily dodged. Posted by SSJ2Gohan on 06:14:2001 08:15 PM: so uhh what should i do with CapCom and some Doom help would be cool Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 08:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip Would you please explain Storm's infinite(s)? I don't mean the one vs. Sentinel. And would you explain the timing on Omega Red's jumping infinite (j.jp,j.jp,j.fp)? Thanx I use neither of those infinites. The Storm one is so hard to set up, let alone do. If you actually can get the opponent into the position, keep thme there, and land the infinite, then you basically are already good enough to win just about any situation. As for Omega, afaik, it's not an infinite, but a really long combo. I think you can get 3 or 4 rotations in, but I'm not positive. You have to do J.Jab -delay> J.Strong -delay> J.Fierce, land, J.Jab.... the delay between jab and strong is longer than the delay between strong and fierce. you want to hit fierce as you're coming down and immediately jump up again with Jab. Posted by TS on 06:14:2001 08:53 PM: Could somebody help me with the timing on Storm's air dash combo? is it do the first zig zag set slow, and then air dash with p immediately? I can only do the easy air dash combos, like WM's... Same question for BH. Posted by DarthSalamander on 06:14:2001 09:08 PM: 3 Questions: Are there any good uses to BH's dash and what as general rule will him out of it? Can he even block while dashing? In Cable versus Cable battles, what is the best approach both wys to gurd breaking and AHVBing? It seems like the incoming Cable can actually beat the other Cable to the draw on a regular basis, or at least trade. I saw a lot of this on the 10 Wong vs Ortiz matches. Also are there any surefire ways for other characters to avoid it or reduce the damage(I have heard Doom can pushblock and fly)? Thanks for your time. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 09:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by SSJ2Gohan I need help with CapCom. Not in a assist but using him. Any strats or tactics would help, thanks If you're using him solo, it's a little rough. He isn't the greatest rushdown. He will loose to more hardcore rushdown like Psylocke and Cammy. But, you can learn what moves that people stick out that he can corridor on recovery. Corridor XX Sword will work on most characters, not Cable or Doom. There are some others, but I think it will work on the rest of the top tier. Also, you can work on a pattern of C.Short -> C.Forward XX Ginzu call, wave dash x2, repeat for rushdown. Also, if you ever hit, do C.Fierce XX Corridor instead. With helpers, the rushdown pattern becomes really solid, especially with Doom, Sentinel, or Spiral. Does nice chip as well. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 09:20 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS Could somebody help me with the timing on Storm's air dash combo? is it do the first zig zag set slow, and then air dash with p immediately? I can only do the easy air dash combos, like WM's... Same question for BH. Storm combo is slow. first four hits are slow, then air dash up forward, four more (normal speed) than lightning attack super. BH is S.J.Jab -delay> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong XX Air Dash XX A.D.Jab -> A.D.Short -> A.D.Strong -> A.D.Forward Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:14:2001 09:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander 3 Questions: Are there any good uses to BH's dash and what as general rule will him out of it? Can he even block while dashing? In Cable versus Cable battles, what is the best approach both wys to gurd breaking and AHVBing? It seems like the incoming Cable can actually beat the other Cable to the draw on a regular basis, or at least trade. I saw a lot of this on the 10 Wong vs Ortiz matches. Also are there any surefire ways for other characters to avoid it or reduce the damage(I have heard Doom can pushblock and fly)? Thanks for your time. Bh's Dash: It probably goes under some traps, but I'm not sure which. I mostly use it when my opponent SJs. Like, when Cable SJs to throw grenades or something along those lines. I try not to use it in ground combat cuz you can get hit out of it and no, you can't block during his dash. Cable GB: well, honestly, if you're coming in, you're still at the disadvantage. The one already in can just J.Fierce for no reason, and you have to assume he's going to AHVB, so you have to counter, or get hit. You also can't respond AHVB if your opponent shoots the bullet really early and delays slightly. You have to input the command really close to when your opponent does to counter. I am not sure of the exact timing and physics of it, as i've seen them trade a lot too, but the advantage is still with the Cable thats already in. You can also push block the GB. Mostly, you'll pushblock and Cable will be low to the ground, so you end up getting hit by the top of the AHVB and get pushed out, or at most only hit by 1 beam (unless you're Sent, BH, Juggie, Hulk, other random big guy). It's very safe and definitely worth it to get that timing down. Most of the time, people aren't ready for the pushblock as they're trying to AHVB as soon as possible. Posted by TheBestMvC2Man on 06:14:2001 10:00 PM: bh,cab,cyke owns. =] Posted by TS on 06:15:2001 06:20 PM: Thanks. Think I got the Storm stuff down, and I'll be playing BH in not too long... Posted by DaBomb963 on 06:16:2001 07:55 PM: Can u enlighten me on how to use omegared effectively, or if he is even worth useing. I just put together my first "top tier" team of Sent, BH, and im trying to find a third member. Plz dont say spiral, i know she is good, but i cant get her to work for me lol Posted by CaptainCanada on 06:16:2001 10:47 PM: Hey, Fluffy, great to see the thread's still goin'! I've got some questions after a few weeks of playing, mostly on my developing Sentinel... 1: I've been playing for a little more with the same team (Storm/Cable/Doom), but recently I've dropped Doom and tried out Sentinel. He actually works pretty well with Storm, I've found, but is the replacement of Sentinel for Doom a good idea? Who do you think would fit in better? And who's assist is better to support Storm's rushdown? 2: Sentinel's air combo/air combo into super? I seem to pull off this guy's launcher all the time, but never can follow it up with something...damaging. 3: Finally, when I'm flying 'n stomping with Sent, which assist should I use to help him out? I usually use Storm-V/Cable-B--would Storm-A be a better choice? Thanks! Posted by Gilliam on 06:16:2001 11:10 PM: hey does anyone have any bonerine or s.s combos, also what do u guys think about my team of bonerine variety/s.s projectile/cammy antiair. Posted by Vonstar on 06:17:2001 03:24 AM: I'm starting to play this team now. Storm(expansion)Magneto(projectile) and captain commando(aaa) does it work well? Posted by Gilliam on 06:18:2001 06:50 PM: bump. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:18:2001 09:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Vonstar I'm starting to play this team now. Storm(expansion)Magneto(projectile) and captain commando(aaa) does it work well? Well, IMO, the duo of Storm/Commando is much better than Magneto/Commando. Commando doesn't add anything to Magneto's rushdown, cept a solid assist punishing AAA, which he adds to every team. Some characters can work his assist into combos, like with Storm you can do S.Roundhouse+commando XX hailStorm and it will do a nice bit of damage. Works really good on helpers too as the added damage from Commando can make it do well over 50% with one shot. Magneto doesn't really have anything with commando that's comparable to Magneto/Psylocke. It's not to say it's bad, you just won't have as many cross-ups or set-ups without Psylocke. It just means you have to have a better Magneto. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:18:2001 09:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gilliam hey does anyone have any bonerine or s.s combos, also what do u guys think about my team of bonerine variety/s.s projectile/cammy antiair. Silver Samuri changes with each mode. I usually don't play him in any mode, but most people put him on Ice. I don't find that to be incredibly useful, unless he's fighting someone that is really low damage. Against most trap based teams, activating any mode is pretty useless to him and a great waste of meter. As for combos, I just use basic ACs that end in throws. C.Jab -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward, Roundhouse Air Throw Also, C.Jab -> C.Fierce XX Lightning Super Other than those, I don't use many combos with him. He has all sorts of combos in Lightning mode cuz he becomes a zigzag character and in fire mode he can chain his fire super in the corner. Bonerine doesn't have much beyond basic combos. He can chain a C.Fierce XX Berzerker Barrage XX Berzerker Barrage X for some good damage. He also has the AC in the corner where you drill claw upward and then continue the combo after the FS for three more hits i believe. For your team, I'd switch out Cammy for Commando or Doom in most matches. It is a well documented fact that i don't like Cammy. It just about every situation where Cammy would be useful, there are other assists the do the same as she does and has more. If you're more interested in her on point, then she's better than most of her replacements. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:18:2001 09:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Hey, Fluffy, great to see the thread's still goin'! I've got some questions after a few weeks of playing, mostly on my developing Sentinel... 1: I've been playing for a little more with the same team (Storm/Cable/Doom), but recently I've dropped Doom and tried out Sentinel. He actually works pretty well with Storm, I've found, but is the replacement of Sentinel for Doom a good idea? Who do you think would fit in better? And who's assist is better to support Storm's rushdown? 2: Sentinel's air combo/air combo into super? I seem to pull off this guy's launcher all the time, but never can follow it up with something...damaging. 3: Finally, when I'm flying 'n stomping with Sent, which assist should I use to help him out? I usually use Storm-V/Cable-B--would Storm-A be a better choice? Thanks! 1: It's a matter of play style. I do a lot better with Storm/Sent than I do with Storm/Doom. Viscant, however, has this uncanny ability to use Storm/Doom to a degree I can't even comprehend. I really don't have much of an idea (maybe not idea, but instinct) of how to use Storm with Doom. 2: S.Roundhouse /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Strong -> S.J.Forward XX Fierce-Rocket Punch or super 3: IMO, Sentinel Stomping is best used with Commando and Doom. BH is also ok. Most AAAs work too, but they are usually just for punishing other assists. I would use A-Storm with Sent. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:18:2001 09:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Can u enlighten me on how to use omegared effectively, or if he is even worth useing. I just put together my first "top tier" team of Sent, BH, and im trying to find a third member. Plz dont say spiral, i know she is good, but i cant get her to work for me lol BH/Sent/Commando and Sent/Cable/BH are very worthy Sent/BH teams. As for Omega Red, he's an interesting character. I've seen him played in almost the same fashion that I've seen Nakaroru played in CvS. A lot of cross-ups and high-low mix-ups because of his Omega Strike cancellings. That's a very important part of his game. Learn to do his basic air combo (S.Strong /\ S.J.Jab -> S.J.Short -> S.J.Strong XX Jab-Coil) as it alone does 40+% damage. Don't bother much with comboing supers. That's not really his strong point. He's much better as a battery and does really well with a basic AAA to punish people. Just be really aggresive. Posted by *Dp on 06:20:2001 05:33 AM: To Fluff: Okay....I have a few questions I really like BH/Cable/Capcom cause it's both rush down and keep-away in a sense plus, it controlls matches well. How would YOU get the momentum with this team? and maintain it? Against magnus is usually where my team has lots of trouble.....to be specific magnus/storm/psy or anyother team with magnus any suggestions? What would you say are Bh/Cable/Capcom's main weakness/bad match-ups? Using this team how would you fight against Strider/Doom? I was thinking some how hit doom cause BH's tail will trade hits with doom when he comes out as an assist. Last question do YOU think Iceman/Doom/Capcom has any tourny potential, if so any suggestions on how to use it? Posted by CaptainCanada on 06:20:2001 09:15 PM: Thanks, Fluff. I'll remember that stuff... One more thing, how should I use Storm's V-assist effectively? Can I use it in situations where I'd use also the Blackheart AAA (maybe for a ghetto Doom trap)? I've heard that it can be used with Cable's annoying grenade/j.FP, but with this team, I'm assuming Sentinel's ground assist would work better there. Should I always choose Storm's projectile, or is the Variety useful as well? Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:21:2001 08:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp To Fluff: Okay....I have a few questions I really like BH/Cable/Capcom cause it's both rush down and keep-away in a sense plus, it controlls matches well. How would YOU get the momentum with this team? and maintain it? Against magnus is usually where my team has lots of trouble.....to be specific magnus/storm/psy or anyother team with magnus any suggestions? What would you say are Bh/Cable/Capcom's main weakness/bad match-ups? Using this team how would you fight against Strider/Doom? I was thinking some how hit doom cause BH's tail will trade hits with doom when he comes out as an assist. Last question do YOU think Iceman/Doom/Capcom has any tourny potential, if so any suggestions on how to use it? Getting momentum: Mostly, it's all about countering his helper. Get close and wait for the helper. If it doesn't come, then you'll need to stick out C.Shorts and the like. Just be careful and don't get hit. Once this happens, then call your commando, and SJ and try to air dash over, so you opponent can't punish your helper with anything. You might want to also throw out a roundhouse at that height before you air dash, just to put stuff on the screen, but be careful cuz that's what some opponents look for. When you're trying to keep away, you'll want to Jump back fierce a lot. When the opponent gets close, C.Short. You can also randomly call Commando to help create a barrier between you and whatever character is rushing down. If you ever feel like your helper would be in danger, just SJ. That's enough of a threat to keep them from doing anything to you as you have options on how to punish him for trying to hurt your helper. Bad Matches: In theory, Cable/Storm/Psylocke should beat it. Strider/Doom because of lack of invincible AAA. Spiral/Cable/Sent of course, that is if the Spiral can fight Blackheart. Fighting Strider/Doom/Commando: You have to be very conscious of the spacing. Jump Back a lot, with or without fierces just so Strider can't trap you inbetween him and Doom while he's teleporting. If he teleports and calls Doom, you should be jumping back with fierce so you're still behind him and he will be blocking the Fierce. Then, will want to either call commando and SJ or just SJ. if you call commando, there is room for you to possibly hit Strider. You'll want to air dash at a fairly low altitude, but still enough to pass over the rocks. As you come down, you want to try to come down at a good angle for a S.J.Short, at almost maximum range. When you land, C.SHort, jump back some more. You also have to react a bit to what you opponent does. They can still teleport a lot and get near you, and you'll have no way to keep him off. You can try SJing roundhouses to keep Strider off, but he stil has Commando and you have to be aware of it. You just always have to be prepared to go on the defensive and always try to never stop moving. When you stop moving, he can trap you. Iceman/Doom/Capcom: I still like Iceman/Sent/Capcom better. Iceman will still have issues with some characters and teams, namely Strider/Doom and Spiral/Sent. He also in my experience doesn't do well against a lot of BH assist based traps, like Cable/BH. Iceman is still good and difficult to deal with, but most top tier teams do have something to take him out. Posted by FluffyXXL on 06:21:2001 08:25 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Thanks, Fluff. I'll remember that stuff... One more thing, how should I use Storm's V-assist effectively? Can I use it in situations where I'd use also the Blackheart AAA (maybe for a ghetto Doom trap)? I've heard that it can be used with Cable's annoying grenade/j.FP, but with this team, I'm assuming Sentinel's ground assist would work better there. Should I always choose Storm's projectile, or is the Variety useful as well? Doom/Y-Storm isn't as effective as Doom/Bh. The best traps i've seen with Storm are Cable/Y-Storm and Sentinel/Y-Storm. Cable/Storm is something like S.fierce x4 (maybe less) while calling storm and then either jab-viper beam or Short-grenade. Sent/Stormm is S.Fierce+Storm XX Fierce rocket punch, Short-Sentinel Force, repeat. Don't quote me on that, but that's what I remember seeing at ECC. I haven't tried it much yet, although i'm considering trying out Sent/Y-Storm/Psylocke out. As for which is better, it's a matter of opinion and character. When I'm picking Cable or Sentinel, i use Variety. When I use Doom or Hulk, i pick projectile. I've got this hella ghetto Hulk/Storm trap with projectile now. I haven't really found any situations where Cable is better with projectile than variety, except maybe against spiral. I also don't think Doom benefits at all from Storm variety. As for other characters, i'm not sure. The main reason why i like the variety with cable and sentinel as opposed to doom is the timing. It just fits better with cable and sentinel. It doesn't fit with Doom at all. Wave dashing will rock Doom with Storm variety. But, projectile will help keep people off of you. Posted by Battlefield on 06:22:2001 07:20 AM: Did you ever saw Valle playig BH/Sent/Comm? I tseems very unlikely to me that he beats Duc spoiral/cable/sent with it, I would like to know how is this game played? Anyways, even without Duc vs Valle, I would like to know what BH/SEnt/Cap can do against spiral/cable/sent and vice versa. I personally like the spiral team a little more(specially with cable on point), but I like the first one too. And BTW, what happens if, on Duc's team, I change Sent for commando(to make cable stronger) Thanks Posted by sabretooth on 07:03:2001 04:15 AM: Well, this might be silly but really surprised me. Everybody talks about how fast AHVB recovers and that kind of stuff. I already knew that if you do an AHVB at j. height you could eat hits on the way down, but until this week I thought that, after a sj. AHVB, except from variable counters, I was safe against anything. Then, I came to play on my friends DC, and he showed me that if I did an AHVB very high in teh air, I couldn't block in all my way down. We tried it several times, all in vs mode, and he could hit me with stuff like shinkuu hadoken, for example(he waited until my sj height AHVB ends, then do a shinkuu close to teh ground andd hitted me). I noticed that cable can't even jab or anything after the AHVB(it's like storm's 3 lightning strikes, you can't do nothing). So I came here to ask if this is the same at the arcades too, and if it is, against which top tiers should I be more aware to do AHVBs in high air if I'm not sure that will hit(flies, air dashes, cable's gun, etc)? BTW: I know that AHVB close t the ground it's safe , since the landing animation will protect me. Maybe I need to do it always close to the ground? Posted by sabretooth on 07:06:2001 05:31 AM: Fluffy, where are you? Can you give me some insights about how to play spiral(w/ cable and sent assists) against a strider/doom/comm, bh or cable team? Thanks a lot. What do you think about cable/spiral/commando?(in that order, trying to maximize Cable control, more likely "OCV or loss/runaway" ) Thanks Posted by CaptainCanada on 07:06:2001 06:23 AM: Hey, Fluff. I don't wanna make you think too much, but I've got several miscellaneous (read: easy) questions... (world's stupidest question) Sent's RH drones: I can control these however I want, right? Valle did a ton of chip with these during a trap on Wong by moving them across the screen...but I can't get them past halfway. How? With Doom and Sent, what's the right sequence of moves to trap here? When do you call Doom? Same with Sent/Storm, actually... The order for Spiral's knife throwing--I know this has been answered a bunch of times, but I can't remember where. 3 up, 2 down + Sent, reload? Finishing a ground pressure combo with Doom: Do I end with the Yellow or Pink Shit? As always, thanks. Posted by Bruton on 07:06:2001 02:51 PM: Captain Canada: Sentinel RK drones: Hold down RK to make them go full screen. It's like Cable's and Jill's grenades. Sentinel trap... not too sure on this, but what I do is FP with BH assist, XX Drones. Should be sorta similar for other assists, I suspect. Doom... I think I normally finish a blocked ground chain with my helper, then SJ'ing and covering their recovery with Photons. Of course be wary of Cable, otherwise you can probably go into S.RK(to push them away a bit) XX Photon Shock(more chip) or Gauntlet blast. I tend to mix it up... e.g. those two, or cancel into flying, etc. Spiral WOS is typically(from jump position), three swords down(land, jump), 2-3 swords up with Sent. Actually, I'm not sure where the Sent call is here. =) Posted by Monkey on 07:06:2001 02:59 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Fluffy, where are you? He cant be here 100% of the time. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:06:2001 06:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by Monkey He cant be here 100% of the time. Hehe. I've been at my local mall a lot lately. Contrary to being a bastion of scrubninity, it also (brace yourself) is the site of the CvS2 test!!! Needless to say, that's taken up a lot of my time. I've also recently purchased the Diablo2 expansion, so I haven't had as much time to check shoryuken forums as usual. I also was of the belief that my thread had kinda died off, but I guess it hasn't. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:06:2001 06:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by Battlefield Did you ever saw Valle playig BH/Sent/Comm? I tseems very unlikely to me that he beats Duc spoiral/cable/sent with it, I would like to know how is this game played? Anyways, even without Duc vs Valle, I would like to know what BH/SEnt/Cap can do against spiral/cable/sent and vice versa. I personally like the spiral team a little more(specially with cable on point), but I like the first one too. And BTW, what happens if, on Duc's team, I change Sent for commando(to make cable stronger) Thanks Well, this fight isn't about BH vs Spiral. And all BH has to do is keep Spiral from getting a good knife call, which with Commando and Infernos, he can do. I've heard that this fight is bad when Spiral adjusts her pattern for BH, but i've yet to see this be as effective as some have said. In all reality, BH's main job is to build meter. SJ.roundhouses a lot and C.Short+commando -> C.Forward when he lands. He can't do this if he's locked down. So you need to hit the knives off of Spiral as soon as she calls them. Do not, under any circumstances, let her snap BH out, cuz the Sent/spiral and capcom/spiral matchups are very bad. BH is really the only one with the ability to not loose for free to Spiral. BH may loose overall, but at least Spiral has to work very hard for it. This match is really all about the Cable/no AAA v. Sent/Commando/BH. IMO, Sentinel actually wins this matchup. First thing you need to do is go read the Advanced Flying tactics article here on SRK.com. Once you know how all of that works, you're ready to beat Cable. You have to stay very close to him. Don't call helpers frivolously. And watch out for Cable/Spiral trap. That's all you really need to do. At every opportunity, you need to initiate stompings (=flying shorts, roundhouses, etc.) You can use a pattern of J.roundhouse XX Fly, F.roundhouse+commando XX unfly, land, SJ. SJing covers the threat of Cable killing Commando cuz no matter where you are on the screen, you can fly behind him and really hurt him for it. Also, don't be afraid to throw once in a while. Wave dashing is a good set-up for this. You can work a pattern on the ground where you dash in with Jab -> Strong XX fly... and force Cable to turtle up good. Once you do, you can work in free throws as well. The main thing to remember is that you don't need to do Sent/Bh trap to win. It's actually bad for you to try that. Stompings is much better. You also have to be very careful. Know at what distances it is not good to be flying. And if you feel threatened by AHVB, then unfly. You can always find more situations where you can initiate stompings again. Don't cling to one flight and pray that it will give you the opening to kill him. Killing Cable is a long process. If worse comes to worse, you can chip Cable. You can do C.Fierce+BH XX HSF, C.Fierce XX Fierce-Rocket Punch XX HSF, repeat to chip Cable. I would only do this if it is necassary, cuz you always want to keep meter just in case you get the opening to land a HSF combo. Swapping Sent for Commando may change that fight, but I don't really have practical experience with it. If you do that, it basically becomes a race to see who can kill the other Commando first, of which Cable (with enough meter) defintely has the advantage. However, Sentinel can kill the other Commando as well, and very safely, upon landing his own Commando assist. It's really a race to see who can land a commando assist on the other commando assist and make the point block. However does that first wins. It's not a pretty fight. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:06:2001 06:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Well, this might be silly but really surprised me. Everybody talks about how fast AHVB recovers and that kind of stuff. I already knew that if you do an AHVB at j. height you could eat hits on the way down, but until this week I thought that, after a sj. AHVB, except from variable counters, I was safe against anything. Then, I came to play on my friends DC, and he showed me that if I did an AHVB very high in teh air, I couldn't block in all my way down. We tried it several times, all in vs mode, and he could hit me with stuff like shinkuu hadoken, for example(he waited until my sj height AHVB ends, then do a shinkuu close to teh ground andd hitted me). I noticed that cable can't even jab or anything after the AHVB(it's like storm's 3 lightning strikes, you can't do nothing). So I came here to ask if this is the same at the arcades too, and if it is, against which top tiers should I be more aware to do AHVBs in high air if I'm not sure that will hit(flies, air dashes, cable's gun, etc)? BTW: I know that AHVB close t the ground it's safe , since the landing animation will protect me. Maybe I need to do it always close to the ground? From my experience, you can Block after SJ.AHVB. But, the recovery frames take up a lot of distance falling, so if you're not at the top of your jump, or close to it, you will probably get hit. There is a distance jumping that Cable can be punished, but it has to be a really high jump and only a small handful of characters can actually do it. I could tell you to beware of some characters, but I'm not going to. There is really no need as you're not supposed to do AHVB that high anyway. If you thought you had to be more careful around some characters, then you won't use it as much, and it will overall decrease from your confidence using Cable cuz you'll be thinking in the back of your mind that "I could get hit if i screw up". The paranoia isn't worth the knowledge. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:06:2001 07:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Fluffy, where are you? Can you give me some insights about how to play spiral(w/ cable and sent assists) against a strider/doom/comm, bh or cable team? Thanks a lot. What do you think about cable/spiral/commando?(in that order, trying to maximize Cable control, more likely "OCV or loss/runaway" ) Thanks Spiral/Cable/Sent looses to Strider/Doom/Commando. It is not a super clean loss, it's more like a 6-4. It's just hard to throw knives when you're in ouro trap. Spiral has to stay even with Doom in order to win this fight. She had to do enough damage to make Strider want to switch out and also has to build enough meter or Cable to threaten Doom. One false move and you get caught in the trap. She also has no direct way to get out. Teleporting is bad, and she lacks the assists to stay out. Cable assist does become a factor, but when the Strider/Doom trap is done right, the only time you can call him is when Doom is behind you, and he won't make an impact. Also, he won't hit Strider in Ouro. It's just a fight you don't want to try to undertake. In all reality, if you are a serious Spiral player, you want to chance your team up to Spiral/Cable/Cyclops (or other AAA). The old school version works good against Strider/Doom. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:06:2001 07:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Hey, Fluff. I don't wanna make you think too much, but I've got several miscellaneous (read: easy) questions... (world's stupidest question) Sent's RH drones: I can control these however I want, right? Valle did a ton of chip with these during a trap on Wong by moving them across the screen...but I can't get them past halfway. How? With Doom and Sent, what's the right sequence of moves to trap here? When do you call Doom? Same with Sent/Storm, actually... The order for Spiral's knife throwing--I know this has been answered a bunch of times, but I can't remember where. 3 up, 2 down + Sent, reload? Finishing a ground pressure combo with Doom: Do I end with the Yellow or Pink Shit? As always, thanks. Drones: like Bruton said, just hold roundhouse. There are two distances, right in front of you (no hold) and full screen (hold). It's very easy for most characters to wave dash under the full screen drones however. Sent/Doom trap: basically, this is a stomping trap. You want to fly and call Doom while close, pass over your opponent, and then repeat Shorts from behind. Unfly when Doom is close to ending to keep yourself from getting AAAed. Stay close and repeat. Sent/Storm: this is like Sent/Bh trap. The variation I've seen (i will be honest, i haven't tried it at all) was C.Fierce+Y-Storm XX Fierce-Rocket Punch, Short Drones, repeat. It's ok, but transitioning from the Short Drones to C.Fierce is a big opening. That's one of the reasons I don't like it much. WOS is call Sent on the third knife. The exact pattern I use is 1,2,3+sent,land, jump, 4,5 xx reload, 1,2,3,land, jump, 4,5,6 xx reload... I've found this this is a much more consistent trap, as switching from 5-6 knives really does screw with people. They have to be extra careful to pay attention to the rotations. And don't EVER finish a blocked ground chain with Doom. That negates the entire purpose of his rushdown. Look at it this way, is it better to do a C.short -> C.Forward -> S.Roundhouse XX Photon Shocks, or is it better to do C.Short, pause, triangle jump short -> forward, triangle jump short, c.short -> c.forward, pause, D.C.short, triangle jump... There are so many ways for Doom to mix things up to land that C.Short into a launcher that it's never worth it to just settle for a blocked ground chain. Whenever you get that close, rush that shit down. Be careful of AAAs, but rush that shit down. Key words, RUSH THAT SHIT DOWN. Posted by CaptainCanada on 07:06:2001 10:54 PM: Thanks, Bruton, Fluffy, that clears things up. Interesting stuff on Doom's rushdown pattern, I usually just did generic ground chains to push them back into the corner. This thread rules. I'll come back here if I need anything else. Next trip to the arcade...I'm trying out Spiral. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:07:2001 07:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Thanks, Bruton, Fluffy, that clears things up. Interesting stuff on Doom's rushdown pattern, I usually just did generic ground chains to push them back into the corner. This thread rules. I'll come back here if I need anything else. Next trip to the arcade...I'm trying out Spiral. Just remember, there is not pattern to it. Keep your opponent guessing, repeat things once in a while, then do the exact opposite. Sometimes, i've just done repeated triangle jumps cuz my opponent will suspect that I'll try to sneak in a C.Short, but I keep pressuring high, and do a slight pause, and triangle jump again and it hits. Slight (and i do mean slight) pauses are always useful. And don't forget you can also throw. Throwing is good. Posted by sabretooth on 07:09:2001 06:26 AM: I'm asking again since I think you didn't saw it in he middel of the other question. What do you think about cable/spiral/commando?(in that order, trying to maximize Cable control, more likely "OCV or loss/runaway" ) Thanks Plus(I'm already asking, anyway) what you think of my strategies(teams in order of preference) 1 - spiral/cable/sentinel - I use it if I don't know what my opponent will take. I think that this team has chances against any other, although you have to play a good game against strider or rushdown teams. I try to copy the top players style. I think my cable is very good overall, but my spiral needs some work. 2 - cable/spiral/commando - My 2nd best, cause give my favorite assists to my best character. Here I'm betting everything at Cable, even losing the battery, teh counter ahvb and knowing that I'll lost if cable doesn't dominate. I use it if I can't beta some team with my first team, mostly. sometimes I start spiral. I like this team against sent starters too. 3 - spiral/storm/cable - spiral tries to get meter for a counter ahvb. cable ries to gets the lead and hail storm, runaway. I like it against teams without comm or bh. 4 - iceman/cable/cyclops - It's easy to play, and I think I do it well. iceman plays like cable, making the opponent blocks cyc and covering it with air icebeams insteads of grenades. I like to play it against strider/doom or magneto teams. Sometimes I trade iceman for spiral or storm. 5 - bh/cable/comm - my bh isn't good, so I use him mostly to give me bars. With this team, even if BH dies, I'm almost sure that my cable will have bars to work with. 6 - strider/cable/doom - Against teams with no AAAs. What you think of my teams. Can I compete with this formations? I know Cable very well(I think, at leats I can do the execution things like gbs and counters very well so it's not a waste), and I think I got decents Spiral, Storm and Iceman already, but prolly not tourney level or anything. the rest I play in a very basic way. Thanks for answering Posted by TS on 07:09:2001 06:49 PM: Teach me how to play War Machine (without sent's drones assist). The team I usually attempt to play is WM/Psylocke/Doom, but my WM/Doom gets rocked pretty much every time, and my WM rushdown is pretty bad. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:10:2001 12:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth I'm asking again since I think you didn't saw it in he middel of the other question. What do you think about cable/spiral/commando?(in that order, trying to maximize Cable control, more likely "OCV or loss/runaway" ) Thanks Plus(I'm already asking, anyway) what you think of my strategies(teams in order of preference) 1 - spiral/cable/sentinel - I use it if I don't know what my opponent will take. I think that this team has chances against any other, although you have to play a good game against strider or rushdown teams. I try to copy the top players style. I think my cable is very good overall, but my spiral needs some work. 2 - cable/spiral/commando - My 2nd best, cause give my favorite assists to my best character. Here I'm betting everything at Cable, even losing the battery, teh counter ahvb and knowing that I'll lost if cable doesn't dominate. I use it if I can't beta some team with my first team, mostly. sometimes I start spiral. I like this team against sent starters too. 3 - spiral/storm/cable - spiral tries to get meter for a counter ahvb. cable ries to gets the lead and hail storm, runaway. I like it against teams without comm or bh. 4 - iceman/cable/cyclops - It's easy to play, and I think I do it well. iceman plays like cable, making the opponent blocks cyc and covering it with air icebeams insteads of grenades. I like to play it against strider/doom or magneto teams. Sometimes I trade iceman for spiral or storm. 5 - bh/cable/comm - my bh isn't good, so I use him mostly to give me bars. With this team, even if BH dies, I'm almost sure that my cable will have bars to work with. 6 - strider/cable/doom - Against teams with no AAAs. What you think of my teams. Can I compete with this formations? I know Cable very well(I think, at leats I can do the execution things like gbs and counters very well so it's not a waste), and I think I got decents Spiral, Storm and Iceman already, but prolly not tourney level or anything. the rest I play in a very basic way. Cable/Spiral/Commando isn't that good IMO. It's a different change up, but what you're doing is taking probably your biggest strength (mid-game Cable) and taking it away. Cable/Spiral is good, but it isn't enough to stop the rushdown. Teams like Magneto/Storm and Strider/Doom will still be able to rush you down. Other teams like Sent/BH will also have a slight advantage against you at the beginning of the match mostly because you don't have enough meter to scare them into not trapping at all. I just see spiral starting as being way more powerful than having Cable. You build meter, you chip a lot, and you still have Cable in the backfield. Cable 2nd just shuts down some teams. Also, Spiral can safe-switch in Cable if you aren't fighting team that opens itself up to the counter. 1.) Good 2.) ehh. see above 3.) I like this team, but that's just me. Spiral can safe switch into Cable or you can counter into AHVB and end it all with a Hail Storm either to kill or just take a massive lead. Cable is only really there to give you the lead and Storm protects it. This is really a Storm team as Cable isn't in for too long (even though me makes the biggest impact of the match). However, Spiral/A-Storm isn't as effective as Spiral/Sent. It works for good ground control, but it is hard to work against some assists, mainly Y-Sent. 4.) I have never been a fan of starting Iceman. I also have never been a fan of Iceman/Cyke. Also, the main teams that can beat Iceman are Strider/Doom, Sent/BH and Cable/BH. How often to you not play these? 5.) It is ok. It's a decent counter team for Spiral/Cable/Sent IMO. It gives you a faily equal match up until the Cable v Cable fight. Then it just comes down to who lands the AHVB first. Whoever looses Cable first pretty much looses. Other than that, it's ok. 6.) I don't like Strider/Doom/Cable. Too much meter use and no battery. Strider pretty much batteries his own meter, but if worse comes down to worse, Cable can't build his own. Cable 2nd will wreck this. Cable/AAA really give problems to Doom/no meter. And Cable/AAA with meter vs Cable/no AAA/no meter...you can figure out that one. I would rather have someone there to deal with Cable. Strider/Sent/Doom would do better, if you learn to fight Cable with Sent and be really careful. Strider/Sent gives you a lot of ground control and builds meter good early. Sent/Doom 2nd really works better against Cable than Cable/Doom will. You can also work around AAAs at times. You could also use Strider/Doom/Commando. The 3rd character should either make Doom more effective or be efficient without meter. Posted by sabretooth on 07:10:2001 04:57 AM: Thanks a lot, Fluffy. I heard you can throw rolling opponents. Is that true? I think rolls are totally safe, and I do it a lot. And, if you don't mind, could you tell me what's going on at CvS2 right now. I would like to know if the CCs seems dominat as before, and how good are Nakoruru, Morrigan, Dhalsim and Haomaru. Thanks a lot Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:10:2001 09:09 AM: CvS2 thoughts quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Thanks a lot, Fluffy. I heard you can throw rolling opponents. Is that true? I think rolls are totally safe, and I do it a lot. And, if you don't mind, could you tell me what's going on at CvS2 right now. I would like to know if the CCs seems dominat as before, and how good are Nakoruru, Morrigan, Dhalsim and Haomaru. Thanks a lot Well, after playing it a bit, I really like the game. First off, six buttons is way better than that four button crap in the last game. Second, throws are noticably faster. Third, 6 grooves instead of 2 is great. I will be the first to admit that there is no doubt going to be a broken groove (or at least dominant), but so far it has yet to be found. I honestly can't see one that will be truly dominant. Fourth, I love the flexible ratio system. It makes R3s and R4s actually good. You can decide how many characters you have (up to three only) and what ratio they are. You have to have at least a R2 now, so no more calls of "Round 7" anymore. The R4s in CvS all had low stamina in general, so making them R4s gave them the best stamina in the game, but only slightly. I mean, when I played on the home veriosn and made a R4 zangief or Ryu, I noticed the difference between Akuma stamina and Ryu stamina. Anyway, a quick rundown of grooves: C - Capcom style groove. Three meters that build from doing hits and specials. You also gain air blocking and guard cancels (alpha counters). A - Vism-esque groove. You have a meter with two parts. At 50%, you can either do a lvl1 or a guard cancel. At 100% you have two lvl 1 charges or you can activate your custom combo. The custom system is really like A3 now instead of A2, cept there is no air recovery, so you can move a round a bit more. It seemed to have no invincibility to me, but I could be wrong. I saw CCs get stuffed left and right. However, I assume if you CC and then do a move with invincibility frames, then it will work correctly. You can juggle very liberally however. You can also roll in this groove P - SF3 groove. You can parry, tactical recovery (PPP now when you hit the ground) and low jump. Low jumps will be explained later. The parry is slightly weak. It's hard to explain, mostly cuz I don't know the SF3 system that well, but from what I've been able to gather in SF3 when you parry, there is a slight hold on your opponent that gives your opponent more lag. It isn't quite this way in CvS2. It doesn't seem like parrying stops movement at all. S - SNK groove. Same as CvS, but with Dodge instead of roll and low jump. Low Jump is executed by tapping a jump direction. Instead of a regular jump, you get a half-jump that is like an overhead in a way. You have a slight recovery from your low jump, so it's actually possible for a really fast move to be able to punish a low jump. It's very slight though. Dodging is like in SNK games. You can dodge and attack from the dodge. I haven't messed with it yet, but i know punch and kick cause different attacks. Kick is supposed to knock down and punch is supposed to be cancellable. I have yet to confirm that myself, but that's what i've been hearing. Another note, you can't AC while in desperation mode, you can only do it when your meter is charged. N - KOF'99 extra groove (i think). You have the following: Roll, Guard cancel, Counter Movement (AC to roll instead of attack), low jump, tactical recovery. Your meter builds like a capcom meter and instead stores in three little balls. You can just do ACs or lvl 1s whenever, or you can activate one. Activate (Fierce+Roundhouse) allows you to do a lvl 3 instead. Activating also releases a timer (like in S-groove) and you can do an AC whenever. So, in reality, you're only using two levels to get a level three. In theory, if you could combo another super after, you could combo 4 levels with only three. For example, you could do Guile's Lvl 3 Rush super and then juggle (assuming properties are the same) with a lvl 1 flashkick super. I have yet to play around with this enough yet, but i'll get back with that one soon. I think this is the groove with the most potential. I mean, you can activate a super (btw, you can't build more meter while activated, or else this would definitely be broken) and you have the threat of lvl 3. If all else fails, you can use an AC at the end, or wait for your opportunity for a lvl 3. Like, let's say someone jumps into zangief all day and trades with his KKK lariat. Now, you activate. If they ever jump again, they get Lvl 3ed instead for some massive damage. And to top it all off, you still have two levels left if you don't super (still enough to do a lvl 3) which is very easy to replace. And if you do use it, you still have one left, so if worse comes to worse, you can always AC or try to build a 2nd up to get another lvl 3. I just see this having too much damage potential too fast. K - Samuri Showdown rage groove. This is an unusual groove. You have Just Defense (snk version of parry, tap back and gain life instead of parry), low jump, and i believe tactical recovery, but i may be wrong on that. I don't use K that much to know. Anyway, you gain meter by getting hit, and when you rage, you gain an offensive and defensive bonus. You also can end your rage to lvl 3 super or if the timer runs out. If you don't get hit while you're in rage, then you'll gain about 3 of them before you die. In any ratio, you get about 3. You get one just before you die, so if you get hit by a massive move that kills you, you may only get two rages. It is possible to only get one, but you will always get one. I haven't seen any 100% combos, even from R4 hitting R1s. 95% I've seen though. From what i've seen also, it is not the groove of choice for high ratio characters. Even at R4, you still only get about three rages. So, when you get there, you need to make them count. It seems much better to have is spread out in something like C or N groove. In K groove, as an R4 you have to hit every Level 3 in order to keep yourself competitive. Character specifics: Haohmaru - I've been playing him most if not all of the time I've been playing. I really think he's a great poking character (i like pokers) and he does quite a number on the guard meter. My main strategy is to break your guard meter and then either hit you with a S.fierce (massive damage, fast, and really bad recovery) or a lvl 3 super (a super version of fierce). I also think Haohmaru's guard cancel is pretty good, considering it's his DP move and normally it sucks. In a guad cancel, it's good however. Nice damage for a GC. Bison - One thing about CvS2, they seemed to increase the cheapness factor up to about just slightly under ST, and that means bringing some characters back to their former glory. Bison is one of those characters that has returned. He's EX bison with a teleport and psycho crusher super. His Stomp has a lot of priority. The Flip kick has a lot less recovery, especially short. He can also teleport. And having six buttons back is good. Balrog - Balrog took a hit, mostly in his rushing punches and super. They all had more recovery. No more desperation mode cheese. I honestly didn't see the need for this, as the general trend seemed to make the other characters better, but hey, i'm not capcom. Kyo - Ok, I have yet to understand how Kyo works, but i think he's going to be way better than he was before. Mostly, i like his new strongs and forwards. C.Strong is a standard shoto-style C.Strong which makes it a good counter. C.Forward also has range, but i'm not sure if it cancels. His rushing punches are like they were in SNK games. If you hit something (fireball or move) with the fist part of his first qcf+P move, it will autoblock it for you. Then, you can continue to combo. I know that he can combo normally like in CvS and can also go into the overhead punch with it. His RED kick is faster too. As i said, he's better. I don't know of it's enough to make him competitive, but he's better. Terry - Terry took a hit in that his crack shoot lost prioirty and his power dunk lost it's inital low priority and can be swept. In the bright side, power dunk is now an overhead. Rising Tackle is still good. Burning Knuckle is same. Fireball is bigger. Supers are pretty much the same, but I think it's much harder to combo after a lvl 3 buster wolf. Rock - He's good. He has a good safe chain. He has a lot of cancel-able moves and his level 3s are good. He has a ghetto Raging Storm, which is actually better cuz it's only qcfX2+P instead of the pretzel. He has counters. He has rising tackle. His rushing Lvl 3 is really fast and goes full screen. IMO, he's a very solid character, especially as an R1. He doesn't do a lot of damage, so wasting lots of points on him don't seem that ideal to me (much like Dhalsim and Yuri as well) but he's still a very good charcter. I expect to see him in a lot of teams. Yuri - As much as I thought she would be vastly improved, i've discovered it's only slight, as she gained her DP, but it has bad priority. All DPs seemed to loose a bit, but Yuri's in particular seems very weak. You can't link C.roundhouse anymore (AFAIK) and it's a bit harder to work her trap as the timing seems to have been tweaked a bit. The motion for her stomping super was changed as well. I hear she has a good CC, but I haven't tried to piece anything together yet. Dhalsim - He's like in A3 now. His limbs are slower (thank god) and you can't buffer C.Fierce (which is slower anyway) but you can buffer C.Strong (identical with C.Fierce from CvS). I also think his Yoga Blasts were improved, as the Short version seems to be really fast. Overall, he's better. Blanka - Blanka gets his Forwards back, including his J.Forward which is a great cross-up. Also get's back his Fierce while he's charging back. They didn't tweak him at all, so he's just as good as we was in CvS. He has both supers (which seems useless to me, seeing as how the first one was better anti air and went through fireballs) but i haven't seen his GC to know if it's good or not. Probably something I should check up on, but I admit i haven't played Blanka once yet in CvS2. Most of what i've seen as come from watching everyone else use him. Honda - I think his normals are much faster, so he's better. I'm not sure if he has the really short roll yet, but i could have sworn it seemed a bit longer. Didn't use him much. Vega - I think Vega is way better. They made his wall spring control like it did in ST, so he can move around quite a bit. It feels so much more loose than in A3. I also think his flip kick has slightly less priority against ground moves, but that's only a slight adjustment. He's still a good poker. He has move recovery on his Rolling claw move, so you can't link a C.Strong after a Strong roll. Only a minor inconvenience as the wall spring is so much better. Having strongs and forwards back is good too. Flexible ratio makes him a lot better, as he's no longer the most pussy of R3s. I think he's a really good R1 myself, and an OK R2. Hibiki - I have played her a bit, and i know ricky is playing her quite avidly. He's pretty good. I also think she ranks up there with Haohmaru in terms of speed/range combinations. Slightly less range, slighty more speed. She's supposed to have good customs though. Todo - contrary to popular belief in the E3 beta, I don't think this "new" version of him is that bad. His wave move is pretty fast, although not as fast as I would like it to be. His anti-air wave is pretty bad, and it's much better to use a tiger knee version of his air wave. The tiger knee wave is good. It's also a really fast overhead and it has fast recovery. His grab can lead to a combo and can combo his super. I think it would be best to use him on P-groove, so you can land easy grabs into combos. He cojld possibly have potential. He could have some uses against long ranged characters like Haohmaru and Dhalsim. I just don't see what was so bad about him. Iori - Umm, my inital thought on him was WTF? Ok, to balance him out, they take away his only combo (c.short x3 XX Rushing punch special) but, you can still buffer a C.Jab with the Rushing special, and can link a Jab to a short, so all you need to do to combo it is C.Short, C.Short, C.Jab XX Rushing Special. Once again, capcom's genius shines through again. Anyway, I haven't tried him in S-groove to see if he still had desperation cheese. I've seen him played in A-groove though. Very interesting CC with Rushing special X2, fireball, repeat, end with maiden masher. could possibly end it with pillar special instead and then continue to combo after that. Don't know though. I'm intrigued enough to use him now. Kim - He's another oddity. He can't buffer his C.Roundhouse, but he can his new low forward. His C.Strong is also a good shoto-style strong. I think he hasn't lost anything, and he gained his launch super. Could be interesting in N-groove. I'm thinking launch with lvl 1 and activate then lvl 3 rush super. The activation may have too much recovery though, but anything is possible. Kyosuke - I don't like him that much. His normals are pretty slow. His C.forward is nice though. I honestly don't understand how to use his fireballs much at all. I really don't think he has much going, however i'm sure i'll eat my words when someone one day figures out how to use him and thoroughly schools me. I await that day. His qcf+K is better anti-air than his DP and his DP looks like it would allow a juggle, but I haven't seen anything that will juggle after it. I'm thinking A-groove with it though, as it would be the ideal attack for keeping a combo going. Maki - I used her once today, and she's pretty good. Choi used her a lot when i saw him play. She seemed good. Slightly better version of Guy. She has a 720 super in the air, but i don't really see how it could be useful. too hard to do it. Then again, that could just be me. He has mad mind games with her dashing moves. Her short causes her to stop, forward does a low hit, and roundhouse does jumping throw. Rugal - I like him now. He's got a new air move. It has a slight start up delay, but it seems to have no recovery. I don't think you can combo off of it, but it's still fast. His rushing grab and super are still fast like normal, not slow like EX. I like. Geese - He's not much different from normal Geese in CvS, just with the hcb+K rush special. I like the addition of his strong and forward. It's also fairly easy to guard break with him. Counters are still good, if slightly liable. Beni - Beni took a hit. His fireballs aren't as good. Less range it seems. And his spinning kick is the regular version that sucks you in. IMO, that's really what makes and breaks Beni in CvS. EX was so better cuz of it. His kick special also seemed like it was either slower or maybe had less range. Could just be me though. He has his anti-air kick move now. Plus all of his supers, including the fireballs, the rush, and the grab. He just doesn't seem as good to me. Nako - She's been toned down, mostly in the damage department. She's got a few new tricks though, and I still think she's effective. Ricky is still playing her and is still dominating. I think her J.Short has less priority (thank god) and she still can combo well enough with S.Strong instead of S.Fierce Morrigan - Haven't seen too much out of her. She didn't seem different to me. I never really played her in CvS though. Zangief - He was neutered. Literally. His SPDs don't have the range they used to. It's sad, cuz of all the characters, he has lost probably his most important aspect, and it's not like he was ever that dominant anyway. His anti-air super is also weaker, more like the A3 version in terms of range and speed. It retains the invincibility though. I can't say I've seen much out of any other characters. If I missed any that are important to you, let me know and i'll reply. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:10:2001 07:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by TS Teach me how to play War Machine (without sent's drones assist). The team I usually attempt to play is WM/Psylocke/Doom, but my WM/Doom gets rocked pretty much every time, and my WM rushdown is pretty bad. Abuse his smart bombs like mad. Low altitude SJ.Smart Bombs are good. His smart bombs are faster than IMs, so you can SJ to greater heights and follow it up with a Fierce on the way down. If you can do the Japanese C.Strong /\ S.J.Jab XX Air Dash XX A.D.Jab -> A.D.U.Fierce setup, you don't need Psylocke anymore. Doom is good just for the SJ.SmartBombs style trap. SJ, air dash up, smart bomb, fly, air dash over your opponent while calling Doom, unfly, land, repeat. It's ok, but it will loose to a well placed AAA. It's always safe to fly into your smart bombs though. I haven't tried it yet, but I assume the genghis corner IM infinite would also work with WM as well. Your third character should be relative to whatever assist or other point character would either allow Doom to do well or go good with Doom assist. Possible options would be Storm, Cable, Commando. Posted by sabretooth on 07:12:2001 04:51 AM: Your CvS2 explanation was amazing, Fluffy. Thanks a lot! Later, when you start to figure the tiers out, I would like to hear from you And about MvC2, it's possible to throw or hit rolling opponents? Still MvC2, I just read an amazing explanation from kdcmarvel about how it's possible to variable counter/AHVB in the middle of the Hyper Sentinel Force(it's at gaming discussion, a thread about who'll win B5). It's possible to do it against another things that the AHVB can't hit in time?(I know about counter other AHVBs already) Thank you very much for all the job you're doing here, Fluffy. This thread is amazing. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:12:2001 05:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Your CvS2 explanation was amazing, Fluffy. Thanks a lot! Later, when you start to figure the tiers out, I would like to hear from you And about MvC2, it's possible to throw or hit rolling opponents? Still MvC2, I just read an amazing explanation from kdcmarvel about how it's possible to variable counter/AHVB in the middle of the Hyper Sentinel Force(it's at gaming discussion, a thread about who'll win B5). It's possible to do it against another things that the AHVB can't hit in time?(I know about counter other AHVBs already) Thank you very much for all the job you're doing here, Fluffy. This thread is amazing. You can't hit or throw a rolling opponent in MVC2. However, you can throw them as soon as they recover, and they cannot jump it. The only thing they can do is do an invincible move (ex. DP) or something that instantly puts them off of the ground (ex. flight). Back when I was really into playing Magneto and threw a lot, I used to have the timing to do that. I might try to build up my timing for that again for B5. As for countering HSF, I wouldn't rely on it too much. I've always had problems with AHVBing HSF in general, and I think they will trade. It's much safer to wait for a C.Fierce and then counter to AHVB. Posted by sabretooth on 07:13:2001 05:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You can't hit or throw a rolling opponent in MVC2. However, you can throw them as soon as they recover, and they cannot jump it. The only thing they can do is do an invincible move (ex. DP) or something that instantly puts them off of the ground (ex. flight). Back when I was really into playing Magneto and threw a lot, I used to have the timing to do that. I might try to build up my timing for that again for B5. As for countering HSF, I wouldn't rely on it too much. I've always had problems with AHVBing HSF in general, and I think they will trade. It's much safer to wait for a C.Fierce and then counter to AHVB. Wow, so I better be prepared to tech hit out of my rolls! Anyways, about VC AHVB vs HSF, kdc says that it has to be done at a certain position to works perfectly, maybe it's the same to the normal AHVB. I heard some people said that you can AHVB Sent between things like HP and RP, or RP and HSF. Could you tell me the ways you know to AHVB the HSF, even if you don't think it will works often? And about AHVB sent's c. fierce, people are cancelling that into flight, deflight, so when my blockstun ends(AHVB time) they're already landing safely. That's why I need more options to kill Sent. Before, they would at least waste a meter to protect a fierce, now the flight is making it safer. Thanks a lot Posted by ElvenShadow on 07:13:2001 06:06 AM: Are there any really potent teams that can be made from any combination of the following characters? Spiderman, Wolverine, Akuma, Captain Commando, Strider, Gambit, Cammy, Ryu, Ken? Those are probably my best guys, and I ussually use a team of Spiderman, Akuma, and Wolverine, but I see guys using some teams that just work so much smoother and I was wondering if there are really good comninations between those characters that work well together as a whole that have some nice tricks? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:13:2001 06:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Wow, so I better be prepared to tech hit out of my rolls! Anyways, about VC AHVB vs HSF, kdc says that it has to be done at a certain position to works perfectly, maybe it's the same to the normal AHVB. I heard some people said that you can AHVB Sent between things like HP and RP, or RP and HSF. Could you tell me the ways you know to AHVB the HSF, even if you don't think it will works often? And about AHVB sent's c. fierce, people are cancelling that into flight, deflight, so when my blockstun ends(AHVB time) they're already landing safely. That's why I need more options to kill Sent. Before, they would at least waste a meter to protect a fierce, now the flight is making it safer. Thanks a lot I haven't experimented with AHVB vs HSF enough to know for sure. The only instances where I know AHVB wins is when Cable is at the peak of a jump and won't get hit by hit. I haven't noticed a consistent pattern yet however. As for cancelling into flight, if you're going to counter (which is what I assumed you meant) then blockstun wouldn't matter. I'm not sure which is faster, but I assume the counter would screw up the timing for the fly xx unfly which has to be done very fast. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:13:2001 06:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by ElvenShadow Are there any really potent teams that can be made from any combination of the following characters? Spiderman, Wolverine, Akuma, Captain Commando, Strider, Gambit, Cammy, Ryu, Ken? Those are probably my best guys, and I ussually use a team of Spiderman, Akuma, and Wolverine, but I see guys using some teams that just work so much smoother and I was wondering if there are really good comninations between those characters that work well together as a whole that have some nice tricks? Well, if you're just playing casually, then you can pretty much get away with anything. If you're trying to play competitively before, you need at least one top tier character on your team. The best combination of the characters you have would be Strider/Commando and I would put Doom on that. I honestly wouldn't bother with Spiderman, Ryu, Gambit, or Wolverine if you are competitive and pay in tournaments. Posted by *Dp on 07:13:2001 01:50 PM: I have a few questions, over all what would you say the best run-away storm team is? Is it too out-dated to be effective? Does ricky or any other "top player" rely on run-away as a core game-plan? Can you name some of the current teams Duc valle etc....have been working on or any new tricks? How much potential IYO do you think Strider/Doom/Sent. have in tounaments and why? Do you think cyke as an AAA is still effective, not to just get out of traps, but to catch people with? If so what are effective ways that you could lure an opponent into it? When BH is on point against storm when he's doing Jump fierce couldn't storm just dash in do a c.rh since the pair before disappears couldn't storm stick in a c.rh just before the other set comes out? K, that's it for now thanks. Posted by Fyrefox on 07:13:2001 08:58 PM: Hey Fluff i got question. I have a team iceman/megaman/felica or Sakura. The problems is i have problem with a thrid charctor in there. I tryed Blackheart and i did try Commando....any help on that? Posted by sabretooth on 07:18:2001 06:56 AM: Fluffy, could you tell me what you think of BH/Cable/Ruby at any order? A friend of mine said that he saw a japanese player plays extremely well with this team, but I find it kind of hard to believe. I think Cable can be good, but Ruby doesn't help BH like an AAA should and, if Ruby goes on point(I don't know his order), I don't think she can be very good without Doom, Storm or at least Sent. What you think? Posted by Vonstar on 07:18:2001 08:09 AM: fluffy, i'm no mvc2 scrub or anything, but i never knew how to tech hit or roll, i usually mash and it happens, but i know there is a real way to do it. do u know? Posted by CowSquared on 07:18:2001 08:16 AM: What were some of the teams used in the B4 tourney winners? A link or some combinations with a little explination would be nice too. Posted by Vonstar on 07:18:2001 08:46 AM: fluffy, whats the japanese setup to the ironman infinite? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:18:2001 06:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp I have a few questions, over all what would you say the best run-away storm team is? Is it too out-dated to be effective? Does ricky or any other "top player" rely on run-away as a core game-plan? Can you name some of the current teams Duc valle etc....have been working on or any new tricks? How much potential IYO do you think Strider/Doom/Sent. have in tounaments and why? Do you think cyke as an AAA is still effective, not to just get out of traps, but to catch people with? If so what are effective ways that you could lure an opponent into it? When BH is on point against storm when he's doing Jump fierce couldn't storm just dash in do a c.rh since the pair before disappears couldn't storm stick in a c.rh just before the other set comes out? K, that's it for now thanks. Nobody really uses runaway storm heavily in tourneys anymore. It's mostly used as a meter building tactic. Most people play a more rushdown style with Storm now. As for Strider/Doom/Sent, i actually like that team and I feel that it's a decent counter to Magneto/Cable teams. I would play it Strider/Sent/Doom, just in case Strider dies, you have Sent coming in instead of Doom. And it sets up easy and safe DHCs to get him in as well. Cyke AAA, well, most people have evolved beyond running into AAAs a lot. You have to be a lot more crafty with how you use your AAAs now. And I don't really understand what you're asking about with the BH vs Storm question. Could you rephrase it? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:18:2001 06:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fyrefox Hey Fluff i got question. I have a team iceman/megaman/felica or Sakura. The problems is i have problem with a thrid charctor in there. I tryed Blackheart and i did try Commando....any help on that? Try Sentinel. His ground assist goes well with Iceman and Megaman. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:18:2001 06:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Fluffy, could you tell me what you think of BH/Cable/Ruby at any order? A friend of mine said that he saw a japanese player plays extremely well with this team, but I find it kind of hard to believe. I think Cable can be good, but Ruby doesn't help BH like an AAA should and, if Ruby goes on point(I don't know his order), I don't think she can be very good without Doom, Storm or at least Sent. What you think? Well, BH/Ruby could be interesting. The pillar move cancels a lot of projectiles, like Sent drones, spiral knives, etc. It would be viable to try to use BH to push people away from you with C.Short -> C.Forward and call Ruby AAA to keep them from coming back in. You could also Inferno, and if anyone tried to get back in, the couldn't jump over the ruby pillar cuz of inferno and couldn't dash through the inferno cuz the pillar is in front of you. Could be a very interesting non-lockdown trap. Cable with Ruby isn't as useful as other AAAs, but it would help a lot in the projectile department, possibly against Doom and BH. I would definitely say you'd suffer against most rushdown. However, I could see Ruby being useful against Storm. If you could make her SJ, you could try to make her land near the pillar when she comes down, and give yourself enough time to chip Storm with Viper Beams. Enough of those will eventually kill her. Hmm, could be interesting. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:18:2001 06:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by Vonstar fluffy, i'm no mvc2 scrub or anything, but i never knew how to tech hit or roll, i usually mash and it happens, but i know there is a real way to do it. do u know? To tech hit a throw, you have to hit forward+Fierce or Roundhouse. Basically, you have to try to throw as soon as they try to throw you. Some throws that cause you to land on the ground can also be teched a different way. If you press down+Fierce as soon as you are about to hit the ground, you can recover from throws that could otherwise lead to juggle combos. To roll, you have to do B, DB, D+Punch when a move would knock you onto the ground. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:18:2001 06:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by CowSquared What were some of the teams used in the B4 tourney winners? A link or some combinations with a little explination would be nice too. Duc used A-Spiral/A-Cable/B-Cyclops Alex used B-Strider/B-Doom/(either B-BH or B-Commando) Image used A-Mags/A-Cable/B-Cyclops Art used B-Strider/B-Doom/B-Blackheart Eddie used B-Strider/B-Doom/B-Blackheart Posted by *Dp on 07:19:2001 03:47 PM: What do you mean by using cyke's AAA "crafty" any examples? I mean with storm if BH is on the screen and he does jump ump back fierce before he even gets the second jump back fierce couldn't strom stick in a c.RH? Posted by RogueSquadron on 07:19:2001 04:10 PM: Hey FluffyXL I got a question for you I mostly play with Rogue and Jin, and have a problem picking that third partner. I tried the Sentinel he's good but I want a little variety with any team with Rogue in it.Any Suggestions? Posted by Mr. Hiryuu on 07:19:2001 05:15 PM: MVC2 Questions for FluffyXXL I need a third person for Mags/Psy/?,I was thinking storm. Posted by Fyrefox on 07:19:2001 07:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Try Sentinel. His ground assist goes well with Iceman and Megaman. Thanxs i forgot about him. Posted by CaptainCanada on 07:19:2001 07:34 PM: Wow, after a couple trips to the arcade, I've found out that Spiral KICKS ASS, and BH isn't that bad on point after all. Now...building a solid team. So far, I only have one AAA character I can play well on point (BH). I can use Doom, Storm, Sent, Cable, Spiral and BH...what are the best possible teams can come out of that, Fluff? So far, I've got Doom/Cable/BH, Spiral/Cable/Sent, and Doom/Sent/BH. And just because I'm curious, what's the Megaman Rockball Trap? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:19:2001 10:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by RogueSquadron Hey FluffyXL I got a question for you I mostly play with Rogue and Jin, and have a problem picking that third partner. I tried the Sentinel he's good but I want a little variety with any team with Rogue in it.Any Suggestions? Try Doom. call Doom while doing dive kicks from a jump. Once you work someone into a corner, it does a lot of chip damage. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:19:2001 10:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp What do you mean by using cyke's AAA "crafty" any examples? I mean with storm if BH is on the screen and he does jump ump back fierce before he even gets the second jump back fierce couldn't strom stick in a c.RH? Crafty as in people aren't just going to walk into it now. You have totry to do different things like jumping over people and calling it at odd times. Mostly, you just want to hit a helper and make the point block so you can AHVB the helper to death. As for the Storm/BH thing, you would want to do that, but no worthy BH will do two jump fierces in a row with storm being close enough to hit him. Normally, if I do J.back fierce and someone comes in, as soon as I land, I c.Short repeatedly to push them away and then jump back fierce again. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:19:2001 10:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Wow, after a couple trips to the arcade, I've found out that Spiral KICKS ASS, and BH isn't that bad on point after all. Now...building a solid team. So far, I only have one AAA character I can play well on point (BH). I can use Doom, Storm, Sent, Cable, Spiral and BH...what are the best possible teams can come out of that, Fluff? So far, I've got Doom/Cable/BH, Spiral/Cable/Sent, and Doom/Sent/BH. And just because I'm curious, what's the Megaman Rockball Trap? Learn to play Sentinel/BH teams. Spiral/Sent/BH, Sent/Cable/BH, Sent/Doom/BH. Also, try to add Commando into your mix, as teams liek Spiral/Sent/Commando and Doom/Storm/Commando are good too. Posted by *Dp on 07:19:2001 10:42 PM: Fluffy who wins a spiral vs. BH fight? Is your main team still BH/Cable/Cyke if so, why? Strider/Doom vs. Cable/Cyke? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:19:2001 10:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by Vonstar fluffy, whats the japanese setup to the ironman infinite? Someone posted on this a couple of months back. just go here http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...panese+infinite Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:19:2001 11:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Fluffy who wins a spiral vs. BH fight? Is your main team still BH/Cable/Cyke if so, why? Strider/Doom vs. Cable/Cyke? Spiral wins, but only if she knows how to work the matchup. She doesn't win on traps alone. It also is one of her harder matchups. It's hard for her to land anything on him, and she spends time blocking SJ.Roundhouses a lot too. You need patience. As for my main team, i have none at the moment. I'm working on getting a new one, and so far the candidates are BH/Sent/Commando, Spiral/Sent/Commando, Spiral/Cable/Sent, Storm/Sent/Tron, and still BH/Cable/Cyke. I'm working on new BH/Cyke stuff, but it's not done yet. I'll hopefully have it ready for B5. I have less than three weeks left though. Strider/Doom vs Cable/Cyke, cable/Cyke should win. Just always jump back and don't use Fierce beams. Use Jab instead if you ever do use it. You'll eventually have meter and land a cyke assist on something and AHVB it to death. Posted by *Dp on 07:20:2001 12:39 AM: Fluffy could you go into more detail about how spiral wins against BH? Lets say spiral has either BH,Cable,Sent. vs BH with either Sent,Cable,Capcom. who would you say is better as an assist and all around character cammy or cyke I'm saying cammy because she it's just a better point and has all the tools to take on top-tier characters and having the extra 10% chip damage option I don't think is going to help a whole lot if the opponent has two characters with a quater of life or a little more each. Cammy IMO is an excellent end-game character, she also has an assist that I think is better due to angle of her cannon spike and it's ability to go though more stuff and is able to break more traps than cyke. She also strengens cables main weakness which is above him vs. cyke who strenthens cables main strenth which is controlling just about everything in front of him. So what do you think fluffy all in all who would you say is better to have for cable? Cammy or cyke, any reasons? Posted by sabretooth on 07:20:2001 06:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Well, BH/Ruby could be interesting. The pillar move cancels a lot of projectiles, like Sent drones, spiral knives, etc. It would be viable to try to use BH to push people away from you with C.Short -> C.Forward and call Ruby AAA to keep them from coming back in. You could also Inferno, and if anyone tried to get back in, the couldn't jump over the ruby pillar cuz of inferno and couldn't dash through the inferno cuz the pillar is in front of you. Could be a very interesting non-lockdown trap. Cable with Ruby isn't as useful as other AAAs, but it would help a lot in the projectile department, possibly against Doom and BH. I would definitely say you'd suffer against most rushdown. However, I could see Ruby being useful against Storm. If you could make her SJ, you could try to make her land near the pillar when she comes down, and give yourself enough time to chip Storm with Viper Beams. Enough of those will eventually kill her. Hmm, could be interesting. I think BH/Ruby would deal some trouble to my spiral/cable/sent team. How should I fight it? And what about spiral/cable/capcom? I'm not playing cable/spiral/capcom anymore, but I still like it as spiral/cable/capcom. Like I said before, my cable is much better than my Spiral so I'm thinking about use Spiral/Cable/Capcom instead of Spiral/Cable/Sent as my default team at least for the upcoming tourneys. Do you think this team can deal with any other, or there are things that will make it weak? Lastly, how should I protect my sent assist with Cable . If I try to copy cable/spiral traps, I'm afraid of eat supers or inclose hits.If I do the AAAup(assist, sj grenade) I have 2 bad options. If I sj right after call my assist, he might not hit the opponent(and the drones seems to disappear often if I sj forward). If I wait until teh opp. blocks the assist, he might do some AHVBs/DHCs/whatever before teh drones can get to him. What should I do? Thanks a lot! Posted by CaptainCanada on 07:23:2001 09:19 PM: Fluffy, I need some help against rushdown (doesn't everybody). What are some of your recommended anti-rushdown teams? I've got BH/Sent/CapCom and BH/Cable/Cyc so far. What else works? Posted by StumP on 07:24:2001 04:05 AM: some cyclops combo's/strats would be much appreciated. Posted by Gandido on 07:24:2001 04:39 AM: Well, I REALLY hope you can help me on this. see, I'm one of them oddball players... I'm working on SonSon/IM/Dhalsim, but my current team is SonSon/Magneto/Sentinel. The one thing in all MvC2 that gets to me is the devil known as team WATTS. *shivers* Got any pointers for both these teams in general, and against team Watts? Very much appreciated. Posted by sabretooth on 07:25:2001 05:19 AM: I tried a little BH/Cable/Commando last week, but my opponent was starting cable and demolishing my BH. He used Cable/BH/AAA or Sent and could hold me even with simple patterns like call BH, sj. HP, vb. If I sj, he would caught me. If I just jump to air dash , he would trade the vb for a grenade. wavedashing and block, which seems to be the good option to get in close to cable when I have AAA, it's simply no available to BH. I did well againts most combinations, but Cable starters really destroys my BH. Are there any solutions(besides start cable)? I was thinking a little about practice Sent/cable/Comm. Sent it's prolly the best char in the game right now, and Comm it's the best assist IMO. But still Sent/cable/Bh seems more effective to me(although I would be getting away from a cable based team again). I think Cable/Comm it's the key, and I can do the counter AHVB very well to make my first character dangerous with a AHVB of his own. Who would be the best overall character to make my Cable/Comm team verstaile enough to face any others? Can Cable/Comm beat Strider/Doom? My best Cable until now it's cable/spiral a/comm b, but if Cable dies I got nothing(like Stiltman seems to point out, at another thread when I'm asking the same questions, spiral/comm isn't much more than a good battery). About BH, my pattern it's d. LK, d. MK, Comm comes, sj with HK, air dash, LK, MK on the way down, repeat. Not much more than that. What else makes top tier BH? I know Valle's air combo, but I don't know how to make someone eat my launcher. Enough for questions already. Thanks for your time, Fluffy! Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:25:2001 06:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by *Dp Fluffy could you go into more detail about how spiral wins against BH? Lets say spiral has either BH,Cable,Sent. vs BH with either Sent,Cable,Capcom. who would you say is better as an assist and all around character cammy or cyke I'm saying cammy because she it's just a better point and has all the tools to take on top-tier characters and having the extra 10% chip damage option I don't think is going to help a whole lot if the opponent has two characters with a quater of life or a little more each. Cammy IMO is an excellent end-game character, she also has an assist that I think is better due to angle of her cannon spike and it's ability to go though more stuff and is able to break more traps than cyke. She also strengens cables main weakness which is above him vs. cyke who strenthens cables main strenth which is controlling just about everything in front of him. So what do you think fluffy all in all who would you say is better to have for cable? Cammy or cyke, any reasons? I don't really know Spiral vs BH that well. I've just recently decided to undertake Spiral teams, so I'm personally still learning. Basically, you have to keep out of the BH trap. Try to dash under him when he SJs. The most important thing about fighting with Spiral is to be patient. If you think someone is going to get out of a trap, just let them out. Don't try to force them to stay in, cuz that's usually where you run into AAAs and other bad things. It's a lot better to be good at applying traps instead of good at doing them. As for Cyke vs Cammy, I still like Cyke. Other people will argue with me, and I will argue back. I still like Cyclops' chances in a lot of fights that Cammy just can't win. I like Cyclops' DB+Roundhouse throw. That, and the fact that he owns basic rushdown practially for free with C.Fierce and any assist. He still puts up a good fight without an assist because his Cyclone kick goes right over C.Shorts. He's usually your last character and he has good fights against others like Sentinel, Blackheart, and Commando (common last characters) as well as his massive Mega Optic Blast, which is good for killing off a helper that has already taken damage. Cammy has no way to punish helpers and has to rely on hitting the point. And without any assists (or should I say specific assists) she has no real mix-up game. Other good rushdown characters like Magneto and Storm can at least triangle jump. Cammy has her points though. Her assist is better than Cyclops' against Doom, and slightly better against Sentinel. If you play with it a lot, you learn how to use it and can use it in fights like Spiral and Blackheart. She really doesn't help you against some fights, like Cable fights. She doesn't allow you to combo AHVBs like Cyke or Psylocke will. She also tends to become fodder if a point ever blocks her. It is still possible to punish her of she is blocked, even against Cable. I don't think she's really any better than Cyclops in most situations. However, she does the job of being a general AAA competently and does a good job against Doom on point. That gives a team of Strider/Doom/Commando a bit of trouble. Doom coming in 2nd should loose to Cammy assist if used correctly and if Commando comes in, should suffer close to the same fate. And that's assuming that you don't even have Cable yet. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:25:2001 07:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth I think BH/Ruby would deal some trouble to my spiral/cable/sent team. How should I fight it? And what about spiral/cable/capcom? I'm not playing cable/spiral/capcom anymore, but I still like it as spiral/cable/capcom. Like I said before, my cable is much better than my Spiral so I'm thinking about use Spiral/Cable/Capcom instead of Spiral/Cable/Sent as my default team at least for the upcoming tourneys. Do you think this team can deal with any other, or there are things that will make it weak? Lastly, how should I protect my sent assist with Cable . If I try to copy cable/spiral traps, I'm afraid of eat supers or inclose hits.If I do the AAAup(assist, sj grenade) I have 2 bad options. If I sj right after call my assist, he might not hit the opponent(and the drones seems to disappear often if I sj forward). If I wait until teh opp. blocks the assist, he might do some AHVBs/DHCs/whatever before teh drones can get to him. What should I do? Thanks a lot! Spiral/Cable/Capcom sounds more like a counter team than a main team. Spiral/Commando does have a slightly decent type of mid-range trap. It's dangerous to do against some AAAs though. I'm assuming you're using A-Cable, which means you can't counter to AHVB to beat some characters like Sentinel. As I said before, this sounds more like a counter team than anything, as it doesn't have much chemistry. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:25:2001 07:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Fluffy, I need some help against rushdown (doesn't everybody). What are some of your recommended anti-rushdown teams? I've got BH/Sent/CapCom and BH/Cable/Cyc so far. What else works? Well, fighting rushdown really isn't team specific. It's more of a general strategy. Basic rushdown (no 8-way air dash) can usually be stopped by careful placement of an AAA like Psylocke, Cyclops, Ken, Cammy, or just about any other AAA. Top Tier rushdown can be hurt by Sentinel assist, mostly because you can't air dash when Sentinel is called. Beyond assists, there are a few strats you can use in general with most (as in not all) characters. When rushdown characters dash at you, you do have the opportunity to beat your their attacks with your own. They can dash in and poke at you and you have to counter-poke them. It's a lot like C.short with BH. A lot of characters can do it effectively. You just have to stick your attack out earlier. Commando's C.Jab, Venom's C.Jab, Shoto C.Short, etc. are all good examples of simple ways to counter-poke a basic rushdown. You can use these simple counters pokes to combo a sweep and allow yourself time to regroup and it also gives you control as your opponent rises. It also helps to learn to throw more and learn to do it from different angles. A lot of basic rushdown characters instead of dashing will mix in a jump here and there. It is relatively easy to jump towards them as they do and air throw. You just have to learn how to play the jumping throw game. Keep in mind, after you throw once, your opponent might try to get sneaky and lure you into jumping so he can call an assist. Also keep in mind any time you try this, you could be the victim of a guard break, so it pays to know who can and cannot do such things (Magneto, Storm, and some characters with Psylocke assist). It's also difficult to throw specific characters (like Cable) because of the decreased size when jumping and it's difficult to throw with some characters (again, Cable) for the same reasons. Some top end characters that I find it easy to air throw with are Spiral, Sentinel, Magneto, Storm, and Strider. Other non top characters have good air throws too like IM/WM, Hulk, Silver Samuri and Commando. You also have to watch for ground throws too. All in all, if an opponent doesn't follow a C.Short with anything, expect a throw. Sometimes an opponent will do D.C.Short, D.C.Short over and over to see if he can get in. When he doesn't dash immediately, he's thinking throw. Just be ready to jump or tech hit. Some throws can't be teched though. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:25:2001 07:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by StumP some cyclops combo's/strats would be much appreciated. C.Fierce in combination with assists is good. It keeps most rushdown characters out. DB.Roundhouse throw is too good. You can do it while dashing up to someone, so it's really hard to see coming. SJ.Roundhouse repeatedly is good for meter building. He also has a good S.Short (long range) and it's a good poke/counter-poke. You can also Cyclone Kick over a lot of character's D.C.Shorts to counter rushdown. Cyclone Kick is relatively safe to do in general. As for combos, mostly just use C.Short -> S.Forward -> S.Roundhouse XX Cyclone Kick (one-hit) XX Mega Optic Blast. You can't roll it, it hits crouching characters and it does a lot of damage for a simple combo. Posted by Gandido on 07:25:2001 07:13 PM: Hey hey hey... what about my questions?! ^.^ Posted by sabretooth on 07:27:2001 07:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Spiral/Cable/Capcom sounds more like a counter team than a main team. Spiral/Commando does have a slightly decent type of mid-range trap. It's dangerous to do against some AAAs though. I'm assuming you're using A-Cable, which means you can't counter to AHVB to beat some characters like Sentinel. As I said before, this sounds more like a counter team than anything, as it doesn't have much chemistry. In fact, I need Cable B in my teams.I can't play anymore without the counter AHVB option. I suppose my Spiral won't be effective enough without Cable A? Who do you think makes the strongest Cable/Commando team? Why? Posted by TexMex on 07:27:2001 07:41 AM: Hey Fluff, you said you just started playing w/ spiral and so have I. I was wondering which trap you think is better to play, spiral/BH, or spiral/sent and why. You could play both and play a spiral/sent/BH but then you really don't have anybody to use up all the meter you build up w/ spiral. What are your suggestions. Posted by DarthSalamander on 07:27:2001 07:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Just be ready to jump or tech hit. Some throws can't be teched though. Any notable ones? Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:27:2001 06:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by DarthSalamander Any notable ones? I might be wrong on this, but if i remember correctly, all of the throws that used to be strong/forward that were made into command throws. Gief, Cyclops, dhalsim, morrigan, and any others that I didn't mention that have HCB+Fierce/Roundhouse throws aren't tech-able. Posted by FluffyXXL on 07:27:2001 07:17 PM: quote: Originally posted by TexMex Hey Fluff, you said you just started playing w/ spiral and so have I. I was wondering which trap you think is better to play, spiral/BH, or spiral/sent and why. You could play both and play a spiral/sent/BH but then you really don't have anybody to use up all the meter you build up w/ spiral. What are your suggestions. Spiral/Sentinel is better. Spiral/BH isn't all that good in reality. BH is good for some anti-air situations with characters that SJ a lot like Iron Man and Storm. If you want to play Spiral/Sent/BH, you can use BH to cover your knife summons and then work into a trap with Sentinel. WHen you have lots of meter, safe switch into sentinel and do C.Fierce+Spiral XX Short-Sentinel force, C.Fierce XX HSF or to make it safer you could just do C.Fierce+Spiral XX HSF. Posted by hulk on 08:02:2001 08:00 AM: I plya cable/com or cable/sent against strider/doom. I just jump back fierec all the time to avoid teleports and sjs forward when I reach the corner. AHVB when my opp makes a mistake. Thsi works against scrubs around here, but what smore should i learn to fight a tourney strider/doom player? Posted by teammember001 on 08:04:2001 07:01 AM: by jinmaster “-BH throwing demons with Cyc aaa and Sentinel backing them up" reply: I think I've covered that already in this thread. SJ up with a roundhouse and air dash forward and land behind them with short-short, land, call cyke and short-short, if cyke hit SJ up and forward with roundhouse and do the infinite or whatever. ” How to beat it using spiral/sent or cable/sent or cable/spiral ? thanks Posted by teammember002 on 08:04:2001 07:27 AM: – by jinmaster: “"-Spiral wall of swords with Sentinel Ground assist and Doom AAA" reply: I've already outlined this trap. Have knives, make them block a deep S.fierce, unload knives and call sentinel, reload, dash forward and repeat. ” how to beat it using cable/sent or cable/com? Posted by teammember003 on 08:06:2001 07:20 AM: When storm does the air combo, and then air dash to the other side to do lightning strikex2, lightning storm (both out of the initial combo) and gets more damage, which side should I block against it?thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 09:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gandido Well, I REALLY hope you can help me on this. see, I'm one of them oddball players... I'm working on SonSon/IM/Dhalsim, but my current team is SonSon/Magneto/Sentinel. The one thing in all MvC2 that gets to me is the devil known as team WATTS. *shivers* Got any pointers for both these teams in general, and against team Watts? Very much appreciated. First, let me say that I'm sorry for the lag in my response, but there is a slight reason for it. To be honest, I myself am not good at all against fighting BH on point, let alone team watts. I'm a BH user, and no one ever used him against me until recently (and i do mean recently). The one thing i do know about the match-up is that you do have to be really careful and patient when fighting BH on point. You should worry less about the meter he gets and more about getting hit by a SJ.Roundhouse and into an infinite. I would definitely recommend using Cable against this team as a 2nd or third character cuz your other two character (IM and sim) both have real problems against Commando assist. Also don't like IM's chances at doing max damage from infinites on Sentinel nor dhalsim's chances with his low stamina against calculated Rocket Punches. You need a way to fight against the Sentinel/Commando stomping strategies and honestly very few characters besides Cable with proper AAA. I would definitely recommend changing teams against Team watts, cuz you're supposed to loose to it with the way your team is now. Team Watts is a very solid and refined team, and you will need something equally solid in order to beat it. I will say this though, I heard about some of the things that the japanese were doing with IM and Dhalsim (I only heard, i didn't see firsthand). I would definitely recommend getting the B5 tape/DVD cuz that's what I'm going to do. I'm sure there will be something on it from White and Chikyuu. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 09:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by hulk I plya cable/com or cable/sent against strider/doom. I just jump back fierec all the time to avoid teleports and sjs forward when I reach the corner. AHVB when my opp makes a mistake. Thsi works against scrubs around here, but what smore should i learn to fight a tourney strider/doom player? If you plan on using Cable, i would learn to use either Cyclops AAA with him or Psylocke AAA. Strider has a much more difficult time if he has to worry about getting hit by one of those two because it's an instant AHVB if he lands on when when he teleports. Also they both beat out Doom AAA head to head. If you play conservatively and try to build meter with J.Back.Fierce and use your assists well, when you have three meters, you can kill Strider in one landed AAA. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 10:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by teammember001 by jinmaster “-BH throwing demons with Cyc aaa and Sentinel backing them up" reply: I think I've covered that already in this thread. SJ up with a roundhouse and air dash forward and land behind them with short-short, land, call cyke and short-short, if cyke hit SJ up and forward with roundhouse and do the infinite or whatever. ” How to beat it using spiral/sent or cable/sent or cable/spiral ? thanks Once again, I am not good against BH. Spiral/Sent - Still working on this one myself. Spiral/Cable/Sent is better cuz there's some tactic that I don't know about involving cable AAA that helps you gain control. Cable/Sent - With cable, you have to keep him from building meter and keep him away. Sent doesn't really help you do that. You benefit more from your own SJ.Fierces and SJ.AHVBs. If you both SJ near the same time and BH throws a demon, AHVB him. If not, apply pressure by using a SJ.Fierce to make him block and push him away. The only problem with this is that it's all dependant on if BH continues to jump, cuz as Cable you have to watch him very closely. If he doesn't SJ and you do, he has an opportunity to get close to you. That's normally how I beat Cable with BH is get them to SJ once and use that to get in and start my confusion tactics. Cable is at a disadvantage unless he has BH AAA backing him up. Commando is good too, but Cable/BH is really good against BH on point. Cable/Spiral - same as above. Spiral doesn't improve the fight too much cuz BH won't play on the ground much. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 10:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by teammember002 – by jinmaster: “"-Spiral wall of swords with Sentinel Ground assist and Doom AAA" reply: I've already outlined this trap. Have knives, make them block a deep S.fierce, unload knives and call sentinel, reload, dash forward and repeat. ” how to beat it using cable/sent or cable/com? Cable/Sent - you loose. GGPO. Cable/Commando - Pushblock the S.Fierce. You'll have to take a few rotations, but eventually she'll get pushed far enough away to allow you to get in your Commando assist. When she does, just sit and wait to see what she does. Most spirals will call knives up in the air and you can SJ and AHVB if you're looking for it. You can't AHVB on response unless you know you have to do it. if she decides to teleport, you have to wait again to see where she goes and try to punish her. It's not wise to SJ up to make her block or anything. It's better to stay on the ground and try to react to her. Jab-psimitars are safe as well. after she comes down from commando. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 10:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by teammember003 When storm does the air combo, and then air dash to the other side to do lightning strikex2, lightning storm (both out of the initial combo) and gets more damage, which side should I block against it?thanks Ok, this is just some of my general advice now. When you're playing good Magneto or Storms, when they combo you, just hold forward. Most players won't expect you to do so, so when they try an uncombo cross-up, it won't work. Most players won't try it again and will only go for guaranteed combos from that point on. It also doesn't hurt cuz most people won't (or sometimes can't) punish this. So, in summation: Whenever storm launches you, hold forward until you either block or until she finishes her combo (if she does, holding forward didn't hurt at all and was an insurance policy). Whenever Mags launches you, hold DF cuz most of the time he'll attempt to cross you up as you're landing and launch you again. If he does and you block it, you have free reign to jack him. His C.Fiece has hella recovery, so you can sneak in a combo with most charcters (i think BH is the only one who can't punish this well without an assist like Cyke or Commando) and most teams will have a solid enough strategy to do damage anyway. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:06:2001 11:11 PM: I know people are going to ask me about B5, so I'll let you guys all know before I get a barrage of questions as to what happened. I will say that the tournament in general has a lot of suprises and upsets. The pool system being singe elim was a very different feel and did lead to some good players getting elimintated early and lesser players advancing to day two. The lesser players usually got owned on sunday, but the good players being eliminated early was tragic. ST - I had to win one match against Yoshi to win my pool. My Vega vs his Ryu. First match, was total dominance. I think the 2nd round was almost a perfect. Second match, I take first round. I loose 2nd round. I proceed to get really nervous and choke big time. I didn't win a round after that and got peaced out by Yoshi, who isn't known for his ST skills. I look like a scrub cuz my anxiety got the better of me. More on that later. CvS - My bracket looked tough to me. Me, Viscant, and JackDaFob. Jack has an impressive Zangief which I was slightly scared of. Viscant is Viscant and does not half-ass learn a game. I however do, so I thought my bracket was going to be very interesting. That was until Peter Ong was added to it at what seemed like the last minute. I fight him first. His EX-Beni destroyed my sim/nako/blanka team. D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D. Second match, I switch to R1 army of Ex-Yuri/Sim/Blanka/King. Two and 3/4 charaters and one blanka lvl 3 later and I finally beat Beni. Yay. I almost beat cammy (his 2nd) with my King. GGPO. It was not realistically possible for me (or viscant later) to beat Peter Ong. He ends up taking 5th. MVC2 - My pool number was 63. I don't get to play until at least after 10 (by ponder's estimation, which was fair). This was actually a good thing as Jinmaster and our other friend Colin were in pool 62 and 64 respectively. We decided to go back to our hotel room to practice. Hella peeps (who weren't really invited) come up to our room and waste a lot of our time. Anyway, my pool looked simple. Some random guy from Oregon (who stilt said was decent), some guy from Arizona who i've never heard of and a guy I practice with at CVGL all the time, Jason Tufu. Jason and I talked about trying to get a change, mostly cuz we both knew that I would more than likely win. That's not to say that Jason sucks, but we play each other a lot and I know he isn't as practiced as he has been in the past. But, both of us decided that it would probably be wiser to take our chances with each other than to risk having someone better switched in and having someone switched to a harder bracket. Numbers wise, there were more guys that could beat either of us in other brackets than what we could beat. The logic was sound to me, even though it did give me a slight edge. However, that didn't matter. At the time, i was really depressed with myself (choking in ST was bad. I thought that was my game) and I was just not having a good time in general. I didn't think I'd get anywhere even if I advanced to Sunday (didn't qualify in CvS and wasn't playing in A3) so it would be a waste for me to make it to sunday, go through all the money and effort of paying for the hotel the next two nights and sleeping on a floor while other peeps played games all night long, and go 2 and out. So, I decided I was going to throw the match to Jason. I told Jinmaster about it, and he eventually convinced me not to do it. However, I was still going to forfiet. I figured I'd play the match, and in the middle of it if I was winning, I'd just stop and tell him I forfeit so he can go to Sunday. I was pretty much set that I was going home that night and already had an alternate lined up in my hotel. If Jason had made it, I would have given it to him. If he didn't, I would try to win my bracket and just be a dick and leave. I didn't want to do that to Jason as he's one of my friends. I felt that Jason would appreciate it if he wasn't winning and he did seem concerned that I was in his bracket. If you're reading this Jason, you would have went to Sunday, if only... Ok, this is the 2nd time this kind of shit happened to me that day. Peter "Combofiend" Rosas was added to my bracket late, just like Peter Ong was before in my CvS bracket. Suddenly, it goes from planning on forfeiting to Jason to trying to decide how I would combat the combofiend Iron Man. I was hoping Jason would win, and I'd still do the same for him. I kinda knew that wasn't going to happen. I was really suprised at how well Jason did, despite loosing to Combofiend. He only made one major mistake towards the end of the first match that cost him the match. Other than that, he played it very well. I leaned over to him and told him not to worry, that it was only one mistake, and he could still take the match. I really did want Jason to win, cuz I knew I would loose to Combofiend. Jason ended up loosing. So, it was me vs combofeind for our pool's spot. Having watched him play Storm/IM/Sent, I decided to use my BH/Cable/Commando instead of my normal Bh/Cable/Cyke team. I thought Commando would help me out a lot more against all three charcters than would Cyke. It was a good move. I did score a lot of commando assists that match, but it really didn't matter cuz my BH got hit by a Storm combo and I didn't think to block the uncombo. He has been pretty constant with his rushdown and I thought I could borrow a SHGL tactic and land a tag in while he was triangle jumping. Didn't work. I took the bait and lost Cable for it. GGPO. Second match, I decided i'd have to switch to Storm/Cable/Psylocke. I hadn't played that team in a while, but i thought it would still be there for me if i needed it and i definitely did. As it turned out, that was probably the best move i could have made. He ran into psylocke after psylocke. However, I didn't have the timing to juggle with C.Short since I hadn't been playing that much and I didn't have the instint to just straight up launch after connecting psylocke and he rolled after all of them. Same shit happened to Cable as before. I tried SHGL tactic again with the same result (dead Cable) and again it's GGPO for me. Even though I lost, i still feel like it was a victory. Honestly, i hadn't played that well in a long time. That pep talk from Jinmaster really helped. On a side note, Jinmaster and Colin both lost their pools. Hiro as well. The only Norcal representation was Ricky, John Choi (who has greatly improved since the last few months) and Jason Cole (WTF? he plays Spiderman for Christ's sake!). Just based on that alone you can see how some players had a lot better draws than others did. I wouldn't have wanted to be in Ricky's bracket, but I wouldn't have minded being in Jason Cole's bracket. If I had to sum up this tournament in one statement, it would have to be "shit happens." That's what happened with this pool play system. I'm not saying that B5 sucked cuz it most certainly didn't. I didn't like how the tourney was run, but in all reality, it wouldn't matter if i liked it or not cuz I was going to play regardless. This was also the first tourament of this magnitude ever held. 300+ people in MVC2 was a lot to do in two days with 4 machines. Posted by sabretooth on 08:08:2001 09:54 AM: Fluffy, now I'm thinking of change my team to cable/storm/sent or AAA. I think that with cable/storm/sent I can play like team viscant(doom/storm/sent) losing some chip damage but having an AAA and the Counter AHVB to stop my storm to being chipped by traps when I get one the ground. Do you think this team can fight the big ones? Another good thing is that this team it's close to most best teams. If I change just one character I can get back to my spiral/cable/sent or play justin's storm/sent/cammy or use old ricky's cable/storm/AAA or viscant's doom/storm/aaa giving me counter teams that I can learn fast. Do you think this is a good idea to tourney planning? I saw the vids of viscant vs ortiz and when ricky did spiral/sent ground trap against viscant,viscant was variable countering out of it. Isd the trap so bad that requires(or makes it worths) a counter to get out of it? Viscant had AAAs, BTW, since he contered to Cyc at one game and Ken(?) at other. Why everybody at SHGL seems to enter the screen with Cable's HK? Can it break all inclose guard breaks? Thanks a lot, Fluffy! Posted by CaptainCanada on 08:11:2001 08:55 PM: Tough break in B5, Fluffy. At least you felt you played well. You say you've retired, though...is that true?! After I read it, I was wondering: How exactly does Jason Cole get away with using Spiderman? Anyway, my real question is: I've been having trouble against Mag/IM/Psy lately. What's the best strategy to use against those two? BH/Sent/Commando is working well, but IM always manages to take out my BH, then I kill him with a low-life Sentinel, then Psy kills him, and I'm left with the Psy vs. CapCom battle, which never comes out on top for me. Thanks a lot for the counter-rushdown strats...I saved that page for later reading. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:15:2001 06:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Fluffy, now I'm thinking of change my team to cable/storm/sent or AAA. I think that with cable/storm/sent I can play like team viscant(doom/storm/sent) losing some chip damage but having an AAA and the Counter AHVB to stop my storm to being chipped by traps when I get one the ground. Do you think this team can fight the big ones? Another good thing is that this team it's close to most best teams. If I change just one character I can get back to my spiral/cable/sent or play justin's storm/sent/cammy or use old ricky's cable/storm/AAA or viscant's doom/storm/aaa giving me counter teams that I can learn fast. Do you think this is a good idea to tourney planning? I saw the vids of viscant vs ortiz and when ricky did spiral/sent ground trap against viscant,viscant was variable countering out of it. Isd the trap so bad that requires(or makes it worths) a counter to get out of it? Viscant had AAAs, BTW, since he contered to Cyc at one game and Ken(?) at other. Why everybody at SHGL seems to enter the screen with Cable's HK? Can it break all inclose guard breaks? Thanks a lot, Fluffy! For tourney planning, just try to know how to play things. I would advise learning Strider/Doom cuz it's an excellent counter team to a lot of different teams. Also know Cable and Sentinel. A lot of times, you can get away with either of those two as a third character in a team and it just adds so much more with one of them on it. You also have to have a plann on how to beat things. Beat Sent, Storm, Magneto, Strider/Doom, Cable. Basically all top tier. Different people will say that different things work, but sometimes you have to stick with what you know. For example, a lot of people say that Cammy assist is better than Commando assist. For a while, I always wondered what kind of crack they were on, but what I saw it played I realized I had been doing it wrong trying to play it like Commando assist and it was just as effective. I still play Commando for a variety of reasons but top on that list is because I know him and I'm used to him. It takes that familiarity with a character to win. Don't count that out and play something just because a top player plays it that way. Do it your way. As for the viscant vs ricky, I'd have to see the vid to know. As for the Cable roundhouse, it does have a lot of priority and breaks up a lot, but it also has weird cross-up properties and a lot of the time prevents people from going under you and coming in with a low short as you land. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:15:2001 06:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Tough break in B5, Fluffy. At least you felt you played well. You say you've retired, though...is that true?! After I read it, I was wondering: How exactly does Jason Cole get away with using Spiderman? Anyway, my real question is: I've been having trouble against Mag/IM/Psy lately. What's the best strategy to use against those two? BH/Sent/Commando is working well, but IM always manages to take out my BH, then I kill him with a low-life Sentinel, then Psy kills him, and I'm left with the Psy vs. CapCom battle, which never comes out on top for me. Thanks a lot for the counter-rushdown strats...I saved that page for later reading. Cole is the luckiest bastard on the face of the planet. But, he also plays Cable/Doom/Sent as well. He did pick up a win with Spiderman though. Personally, I've been playing a lot of Silver Samuri lately, and a combination of Samuri/psylocke does decently against Magneto. You spend a lot of time running away and calling Psylocke, then doing tiger knee motion shurikens and coming down with either fierce (at a far enough range) or nothing at all (and pray you don't get thrown). Once you get a few meters (that's your goal) you fry Psylocke once. It should do 50-60%. Then, make him use it again. You have to scare the hell out of him and bait it out. When it comes out again, kill it and DHC to the next character. Storm is good for that too, cuz with Psylocke, Mags and IM can't rush down as carelessly cuz they have no psylocke. However, that is just my flavor of the moment. Strider/Doom should do OK if you can play it carefully. Cable/Psylocke can do good too if you use your grenades correctly. Small mobile characters do good. It's harder to do it with Blackheart and Sentinel because they don't have 8way air dashes and are too friggin' big. Dhalsim does well against both if you use him. Storm has a rough time against Mags, but if she has Psylocke and can try to build meter and focus on the assist, it's possible. Most of the time, I loose to Magneto cuz I'm just not all there and some of it is just paying enough attention to try and tech hit and mash out of tempests and that sort of thing. Just learn the spots where you can do things and hopefully minimizing the amount of damage you recieve from him. When playing Commando against rushdown, remember that C.Jab is good. C.jab -> C.Roundhouse XX Captain Corridor is good. Lots of basic rushdown run into that a lot, and you can make psylocke run into it too. Well, you don't have to make her do it, cuz she'll do it anyway. If you sense a jump, you can cancel a C.Jab (just in case) with a mack the knife. When you're the aggressor, try to make your opponent block a lot of Ginsu the Ninja. Also, it helps to know when you can land a corridor. Corridor is fast and can hit a lot of moves on recovery. It pays to know which ones. Honestly, I don't even know all of chances that are good to do a corridor on. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:15:2001 06:55 PM: I did want to address one more thing. Yes, I am retired as of 8/5/01. What I'm saying is that I don't plan on playing in any tournaments for a while. I've been having a problem with my left hand (as has been evident by the fact that I've been wearing the brace) and it's gotten nothing but worse. It's not too bad when I play MVC2 cuz it's kind of a low impact game. No double motions and not a lot of 360s (they hurt the most). Anyway, what i mean by retirement is no more preparing for tourneys. No more playing games at SVGL every day until the tourney. I might still participate, but it would probably be a very poor showing on my part. A slight side effect of that will be that I just don't have the access to information about things that I once had. I don't think I'll need to play that much though, as I feel that I got a fairly good grasp on a lot of matches now. Now I'm just trying to perfect everything I know. I'll still be playing and I'll still post here, but I don't expect to be at any major tournaments any time soon. Depends on how things go with my hand and if it ever heals. Only time will tell. Posted by sabretooth on 08:17:2001 02:36 AM: I hope you get better, Fluffy(your hand, of course, your game is already great ). Can you give me some tips on how to use cammy assist against the main teams like strider/doom, mags/psy, sent/bh and such? I'll play storm and cable on point. Thanks once again. You're the man Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:17:2001 03:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth I hope you get better, Fluffy(your hand, of course, your game is already great ). Can you give me some tips on how to use cammy assist against the main teams like strider/doom, mags/psy, sent/bh and such? I'll play storm and cable on point. Thanks once again. You're the man Well, I don't use Cammy. But, I assume it's like most other AAAs. She's got more range then Commando, so if you're familiar with that, then you can just add range. You can still do things like throw in cammy in combos and do lots of damage. Through her into AHVB combo by hitting the S.roundhouse and cammy at the same time. You can also add her into a Storm combo and combo a hailstorm. Here is the actual combos. C.Short -> C.Forward -> S.Roundhouse+A-Cammy XX AHVB C.Short -> C.Forward -> C.Roundhouse+A-Cammy XX Hail Storm You can also do both of those with commando too. Posted by ss on 08:23:2001 05:47 AM: how should i play cable/aaa against teh best silver samurai teams? and whats teh right thing to do against that ice special? i can never block it . it's unblockable or what? should i try block it crouching or jump out of it? thank you Posted by DaBomb963 on 08:23:2001 11:59 AM: Can u post a guide to Dalsim? Ive been wanting to learn him, but i cant find a guide that is good anywhere and he seems too hard of a character to just pick up from scrach... Also, Cammy's double jump combo? Posted by ss on 08:25:2001 05:03 PM: Playing Cable/Cammy, I'm feeling that I'm exposing he assist too much. With cyc or ken, I just call the assist and sjs, knowing that my opp will have to block it or get hit, and I can cover it with a sj. grenade. With cammy, if my opp just called an assist, she'll hit the assist, and my opp's character is free to move. If he immediately does AHVB or HSF or 100%DHC my Cable won't be able to do anything but block and Cammy will die, so how players like Justin do to protect his Cammy assist from be punished in this way? Posted by ss on 08:29:2001 05:50 AM: And Fluffy, what are your opinions about Sakura(new japanese top tier) and Marrow(that Viscant used at B5 against Duc)? Thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:29:2001 06:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss how should i play cable/aaa against teh best silver samurai teams? and whats teh right thing to do against that ice special? i can never block it . it's unblockable or what? should i try block it crouching or jump out of it? thank you It depends on the situation. The order of your team and your opponents team. If he's playing SS first, then you can use Cable first and just keep away with Jab-Air Viper Beams. Unless Samuri a good assist for rushing down, he's not too much of a threat. I just need more specifics. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:29:2001 06:40 AM: quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Can u post a guide to Dalsim? Ive been wanting to learn him, but i cant find a guide that is good anywhere and he seems too hard of a character to just pick up from scrach... Also, Cammy's double jump combo? Dhalsim: He's more character specific than anything. Use his range to your advantage. SJ.Roundhouse is really good and you can air dash and do more attacks on the way down. His SJ.Fierce and SJ.Roundhouse are staples of his air game, so be familiar with them. On the ground, long range C.Jab is fast and has good recovery. Depending on what team you have, you can do other things off of his ground attacks. Like, if you're playing Dhalsim/Commando, then you can do things like C.Jab -> C.Strong -> C.Fierce+Commando and it will hit from anywhere within about a half a screen. C.Jab also is good at stopping a lot of assists because if it's speed. Get used to doing his basic combo, the C.Short -> S.Strong, Yoga Strike. That's about his only reliable way to do damage out of the corner. Top tier can avoid it though. There are a lot of Dhalsim ACs that I don't know. White was doing some sort of infinite with him at B5 as well. If you hear anything else about it, let me know cuz I didn't get a chance to see. The B5 teaser has a good Liquid Metal combo on Zangief. It doesn't work on every character, but it can give you some inspiration as to how to figure out some combos. Other than that, I don't know too much about Dhalsim. I've only recently started playing him. As for Cammy, you can do SJ.Jab -> SJ.Short -> SJ.Strong, SJ.Jab -> SJ.Strong, double jump SJ.Jab -> SJ.Short -> SJ.Strong -> SJ.Forward XX Spiral Arrow XX KBA. IIRC, that's what it is. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:29:2001 06:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss Playing Cable/Cammy, I'm feeling that I'm exposing he assist too much. With cyc or ken, I just call the assist and sjs, knowing that my opp will have to block it or get hit, and I can cover it with a sj. grenade. With cammy, if my opp just called an assist, she'll hit the assist, and my opp's character is free to move. If he immediately does AHVB or HSF or 100%DHC my Cable won't be able to do anything but block and Cammy will die, so how players like Justin do to protect his Cammy assist from be punished in this way? It's not that hard to cover Cammy as long as you do it correctly. Just try to make sure she lands somewhere close to your opponent on either side. That helps against Cable when he tried to AHVB. You should also know when Sentinel is going to HSF. Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:29:2001 07:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss And Fluffy, what are your opinions about Sakura(new japanese top tier) and Marrow(that Viscant used at B5 against Duc)? Thanks Didn't see the Viscant v Duc match at B5. I was already gone by then. As for Sakura, I haven't had time to work with it much. I mean, it was only posted yestarday. Posted by DaBomb963 on 08:29:2001 12:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by ss And Fluffy, what are your opinions about Sakura(new japanese top tier) and Marrow(that Viscant used at B5 against Duc)? Thanks Ill put my 2 cents on sakura, i didnt get to see the match, but ive been playing with her for quite a while in low-tier matches Sakura is like playing 2 different characters, normal and evil. Both have their str and weaknesses. For instance her dashing fireball, u hit it and u can combo into her fireball special or her huricane kick special for MAD damage on almsot anyone. Ive also seen some air combos (in the old combo section) with normal sakura that do 100% percent dmg against cable and alot more that do around 75%... Now switch to evil sakura, and u got a whole new set of moves, but most important, everything is hyped. Her speed is up, her recovery is up, and her dmg take is up. The new moves trade off her auto combo for a super hadoken (ryu's fireballspecial) , her dash fireball for a regular hadoken, and most of all, RAGEING DEMON (akumas L3 massave damage need to combo into it if u want a prayer in hell of hitting it SpEcIaL) and yes it does just as much damage, and yes it takes 3 bars... Well i guess it was alittle more than 2 cents, but i hope it helps someone... OuT Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:29:2001 09:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by DaBomb963 Ill put my 2 cents on sakura, i didnt get to see the match, but ive been playing with her for quite a while in low-tier matches Sakura is like playing 2 different characters, normal and evil. Both have their str and weaknesses. For instance her dashing fireball, u hit it and u can combo into her fireball special or her huricane kick special for MAD damage on almsot anyone. Ive also seen some air combos (in the old combo section) with normal sakura that do 100% percent dmg against cable and alot more that do around 75%... Now switch to evil sakura, and u got a whole new set of moves, but most important, everything is hyped. Her speed is up, her recovery is up, and her dmg take is up. The new moves trade off her auto combo for a super hadoken (ryu's fireballspecial) , her dash fireball for a regular hadoken, and most of all, RAGEING DEMON (akumas L3 massave damage need to combo into it if u want a prayer in hell of hitting it SpEcIaL) and yes it does just as much damage, and yes it takes 3 bars... Well i guess it was alittle more than 2 cents, but i hope it helps someone... OuT Actually, he's talking about some new stuff. read here http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...&threadid=37545 Posted by DaBomb963 on 08:30:2001 12:44 AM: wow... i didnt see that comming, but ive always known sakura was top materiel, if people would just give her a chance.... Posted by ss on 08:30:2001 04:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL It depends on the situation. The order of your team and your opponents team. If he's playing SS first, then you can use Cable first and just keep away with Jab-Air Viper Beams. Unless Samuri a good assist for rushing down, he's not too much of a threat. I just need more specifics. I really asked just because I know you're a good SS player and I want to be prepared. The only thing that the average SS players use that hits me is usually the ice special. Is that thing really unblockable? Can I at least jump out of it during the start up? What you reccomend? Posted by ss on 08:30:2001 05:15 AM: Ok, I have cable/storm/cammy. my opp have storm/sent/cammy. I'm storm, he's sentinel. he does hsf, I do cahvb against it, but he dhcs to KBA. Can I do hail or kba and beat his kba? And what if, in reaction to this, he uses his own hail? Can I kba or hail this too? Who will be the final winner? I don't know if I explained myself very well, but see it this way. Sent, having Cammy and Storm in back, just did a HSF against me and I CAHVBed it. Now, considering that we both have 5 levels, which of the DHC specials will connect and lead it to a big combo. If it's one from my cable/storm/cammy team, it worths to do the CAHVB. I really would appreacate if someone could make this analysis to me. In fact, 2. My cable/storm/sent against storm/sent/cammy and my cable/storm/cammy against storm/sent/cammy, all of them at any DHC order Posted by kdcmarvel on 08:30:2001 05:41 AM: I know 3 infinites for Dhalsim: 1 - sj. LK, air dash df LK, repeat. This is like the ones from Magneto and Storm. Good to raise bars, kill time and undizzy opponents, although it's obsolete after inf #3. 2 - (corner, do it at maximum possible range for the d.MK to connect) dash LP, d.MK, repeat. This is probably the last useful of all. Slower setup, seems to works just against some characters and only in the corner. I don't think it's good enough to be used at tourney situations. 3 - HK, sj. air dash(I think f. and df. both works) LK, MP(both in the air) , repeat. That's the best one. In fact, it works out of the same setups of the first one and a few more. Plus, it does more damage. I think that's probably the one used by Whiet at B5, since it can be really useful. Well, that's it. I hope it helps! Posted by FluffyXXL on 08:30:2001 06:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by ss I really asked just because I know you're a good SS player and I want to be prepared. The only thing that the average SS players use that hits me is usually the ice special. Is that thing really unblockable? Can I at least jump out of it during the start up? What you reccomend? You have to block it low. Posted by ss on 09:02:2001 06:58 AM: Thanks. If I'm cable, how should I protect my AAA from a 100%DHC team? (ex: I call clops and sj. grenade, opps doom does a PA cancelled to hail, which I had to block, cancelled to hsf, hp, hsf, PA, I have to block everything and lose my assist) What can I do against it? Posted by TexMex on 09:02:2001 12:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by ss Thanks. If I'm cable, how should I protect my AAA from a 100%DHC team? (ex: I call clops and sj. grenade, opps doom does a PA cancelled to hail, which I had to block, cancelled to hsf, hp, hsf, PA, I have to block everything and lose my assist) What can I do against it? If I'm not mistaken you can prob AHVB when he THC from HSF to PA again. You should have more than enough time. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:02:2001 05:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by ss Thanks. If I'm cable, how should I protect my AAA from a 100%DHC team? (ex: I call clops and sj. grenade, opps doom does a PA cancelled to hail, which I had to block, cancelled to hsf, hp, hsf, PA, I have to block everything and lose my assist) What can I do against it? If you aren't blocking, AHVB that shit. Other than that, any time you plan on calling your assist, always be able to move out of a spot where you'd have to block something like the PA. Also, some of the time, you can just use J.Viper Beams against characters to cover your assist (not Sentinel, Magneto, or another Cable). Proper use of his grenades also helps. Cable has all kinds of tools he can use to prevent people from killing his assist. Most of the time, if your assist is dying to teams like that, you're calling it too much. Just play carefully and don't just throw your assist out there. Posted by 4 Prong on 09:02:2001 11:15 PM: I have a few questions first I play various sprial teams my main one is spiral,cable,capcom and I was wondering if you could help me out I have the most trouble with teams like cable,doom,capcom or blackheart,cable,sent/capcom. These teams sometimes dont even let me load up swords with spiral and I was wondering if you have any tips on playing against these teams. Posted by djhuka on 09:03:2001 03:10 AM: i've had a team with cable/doom for a while now and i've been switching my thrid char for a while now. psylocke, sentinel, magz, capcom, and now cammy. who would be the better compliment to cable/doom (besides strider trap). maybe cyke? what about storm? i really like cammy's AAA thats why i've been using her lately. thanks Posted by gief on 09:03:2001 05:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL If you aren't blocking, AHVB that shit. Other than that, any time you plan on calling your assist, always be able to move out of a spot where you'd have to block something like the PA. Also, some of the time, you can just use J.Viper Beams against characters to cover your assist (not Sentinel, Magneto, or another Cable). Proper use of his grenades also helps. Cable has all kinds of tools he can use to prevent people from killing his assist. Most of the time, if your assist is dying to teams like that, you're calling it too much. Just play carefully and don't just throw your assist out there. Let me add something to ss question. can i do sj. grenade just after calling the assist so it will keep the opp in block stun before the assist goes away? I think it can works for cyclops, but I'll hav eto throw the grenade earlier(as a TK) to keep the block stun of someone like cammy(1 hit). Is it right, or there's always a gap to the supers and dhcs using the sj grenade? Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:04:2001 10:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by 4 Prong I have a few questions first I play various sprial teams my main one is spiral,cable,capcom and I was wondering if you could help me out I have the most trouble with teams like cable,doom,capcom or blackheart,cable,sent/capcom. These teams sometimes dont even let me load up swords with spiral and I was wondering if you have any tips on playing against these teams. Cable/Doom/Capcom shouldn't be a problem. You have to be careful and block a lot. Don't get greedy. Just work in a good knife call and then throw them. Always be ready to teleport. You can sometimes use one of your assists as bait and teleport when your opponent AHVBs, but smart Cables won't fall for it. Just make sure you're outside of Commando assist range and any time he normal jumps, you can SJ and get knives. Then, just wait for a good time to throw them. You never want to get caught on the ground when your own commando assist is out, so always SJ whenever you call it, if you're going to summon knives or not. Blackheart/Commando is probably one of Spiral's most difficult doable matchups IMO. Just keep in mind that her main job is still to build meter for you Cable. Don't worry too much about doing chip damage and keeping BH on the ground. Just try to throw lots of knives his direction. If you know he's going to SJ and throw demons, then SJ and throw knives. Once he commits to the SJ, he can't air dash down or anything. You can SJ and throw knives straight across the screen, or you can SJ, do a quick drop, and throw knives on the way down. The more knives you throw, the less he can move around and build meter. You're main goal is to build as much meter for cable as possible and at the same time keep BH from building meter. It doesn't really matter how much damage you take in the process (less is always better) so long as you're ahead on meter. You can always use knives to safe switch to Cable and the BH player doesn't have anything like that. Once you get to 5 meters (or 4 even) safe switch Cable in and from then on just use standard anti-BH Cable tactics. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:04:2001 10:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by djhuka i've had a team with cable/doom for a while now and i've been switching my thrid char for a while now. psylocke, sentinel, magz, capcom, and now cammy. who would be the better compliment to cable/doom (besides strider trap). maybe cyke? what about storm? i really like cammy's AAA thats why i've been using her lately. thanks Depends on the situation. I would assume you'd do bad against Spiral teams. With Cable/Doom, there's really no remedy for that except Strider. Other than that, most rushdown characters are halted by Psylocke or depending on how well you know him, you could use Cyclops. Doom/Cable/BH is always good, as some characters can't get around Doom/BH trap, or at least you can work it to build lots of meter for Cable. It all depends on who you're confortable with. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:04:2001 10:57 PM: quote: Originally posted by gief Let me add something to ss question. can i do sj. grenade just after calling the assist so it will keep the opp in block stun before the assist goes away? I think it can works for cyclops, but I'll hav eto throw the grenade earlier(as a TK) to keep the block stun of someone like cammy(1 hit). Is it right, or there's always a gap to the supers and dhcs using the sj grenade? It's safe. The grenade will beat most supers. The two that are the main concern are AHVB and HSF, both of which it will stop if you place it correctly. Other than that, Hail Storm is the only thing that I can think of that is a problem with that. If you are too predictable with you grenades, you can be the victim of AHVBs and the like. Just have to be more aware. Also, don't always call your assist or else you opponent will be able to make you do it whenever something happens. You want to save your assists for when your opponent is open, not every single time he gets near you. Posted by sabretooth on 09:08:2001 08:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL It's safe. The grenade will beat most supers. The two that are the main concern are AHVB and HSF, both of which it will stop if you place it correctly. Other than that, Hail Storm is the only thing that I can think of that is a problem with that. If you are too predictable with you grenades, you can be the victim of AHVBs and the like. Just have to be more aware. Also, don't always call your assist or else you opponent will be able to make you do it whenever something happens. You want to save your assists for when your opponent is open, not every single time he gets near you. I think Doom's PA can't be hitted by a sj. grenade, right? Posted by sabretooth on 09:11:2001 05:42 AM: Fluffy, what do you think of Guile's assist? I know it's good against Sent, but what about against other top tiers/assists? Do you think a storm or spiral/cable/guile team can chalenge the other big ones? Posted by sabretooth on 09:14:2001 06:49 AM: Fluffy, what do you think of Guile's assist? I know it's good against Sent, but what about against other top tiers/assists? Do you think a storm or spiral/cable/guile team can chalenge the other big ones? Posted by FlyingGuy on 09:14:2001 07:24 AM: Fluffy XXL: i need help with Cyclops in MvsC2. First, his double jump combo,how do you do it? next i have a team that i've become quite accustomed to, one prob. i dont have a solid third party! i've got cyclops and thanos, im not sure how solid THAT team is, but what is your suggestion on a third party?, and with what assist? thanx! Posted by sabretooth on 09:15:2001 05:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by FlyingGuy Fluffy XXL: i need help with Cyclops in MvsC2. First, his double jump combo,how do you do it? next i have a team that i've become quite accustomed to, one prob. i dont have a solid third party! i've got cyclops and thanos, im not sure how solid THAT team is, but what is your suggestion on a third party?, and with what assist? thanx! while fluffy is out, I'll give you my suggestion. Use thanos/cable or storm/ cyclops in that order. Storm is very versatile and has the DHC to make thanos specials more powerful. If you land a special, dhc to hail and run to win by time. it works well. cable has the cahvb as an option to avoid people trapping you. if someone does a beam or something against you, and you have like 4 specials, you can variable counter to cable's psimiar into ahvb and kill the oponent's char. PLus, cable loves cyc assist(always use cyc b). If you want to play cyc on point, start with him as a battery and use cyc/thanos/doom or sent. dooma dn sent are both good assists that can chip. with cyc you can use them to chip more with the mob and makes the opp move where you want him. I hope that helps, fluffy will prolly bring you a better answer. BTW, thanos isn't very good overall. If you want a team as strong as possible , I would try other char. Posted by sabretooth on 09:20:2001 05:26 AM: Hey, fluffy, what about my latest question? thanks Posted by 4 Prong on 09:20:2001 04:03 PM: what are standard anti-blackheart tactics. even when I get my cable in BH sometimes still locks me down. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:21:2001 02:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth Fluffy, what do you think of Guile's assist? I know it's good against Sent, but what about against other top tiers/assists? Do you think a storm or spiral/cable/guile team can chalenge the other big ones? Guile's assist is ok. It is good against ground rushdown. However, it's a little slow compared to other assists like Commando and Cammy. You have to adjust to using it like any assist. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:21:2001 03:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by FlyingGuy Fluffy XXL: i need help with Cyclops in MvsC2. First, his double jump combo,how do you do it? next i have a team that i've become quite accustomed to, one prob. i dont have a solid third party! i've got cyclops and thanos, im not sure how solid THAT team is, but what is your suggestion on a third party?, and with what assist? thanx! 1st: don't worry about the DJ combo. it isn't that useful. Just know that you can link a Jab,Short,Strong chain twice, then end with Fierce and Roundhouse. That's enough. The Dj comb is too hard to hit reliably. 2nd: pick Sentinel Ground. Thanos/Sentinel is useful, and with Cyke as AAA, that could help a bit too. Posted by FluffyXXL on 09:21:2001 03:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by 4 Prong what are standard anti-blackheart tactics. even when I get my cable in BH sometimes still locks me down. What team are you using and are you fighting BH/Cyke or BH/commando? There is a difference. Posted by gief on 09:21:2001 03:57 AM: I read about your throw into assist combos. Could you list some of them(top tiers), please? Posted by 4 Prong on 09:25:2001 03:13 AM: It's blackheart/commando. Posted by TS on 09:29:2001 12:33 AM: Was wondering how to beat Cable/Doom/AAA with Storm... I can't seem to get past Cable/Doom if I don't have a lead. Posted by gief on 10:02:2001 06:57 AM: Why plyers as Shady K don't do cable's s.HPs against the opp's last char? I use this a lot against comm and it works decently around here. Posted by FluffyXXL on 10:03:2001 08:07 PM: quote: Originally posted by gief I read about your throw into assist combos. Could you list some of them(top tiers), please? Ironman Punch throw into the following assists will set up his jumping infininte: Dhalsim Expansion or Anti-air, Marrow Projectile, Zangief Anti-air, and Magneto Grab Iron Man Punch throw with Storm Projectile will set up a Proton Cannon Iceman Punch throw with Sentinel Ground or Spiral Projectile sets up a C.Roundhouse launch Iceman Kick throw with Sentinel Ground in the corner sets up a C.Roundhouse launch Storm Kick throw with Psylocke Anti-air air sets up a S.Roundhouse launch Storm kick throw with Cyclops can set up an SJ air combo if the positioning is right Storm kick throw with Marrow Projectile can set up a mix up. call marrow, throw, and then walk forward. The last hit of the bonerang will make the opponent go behind you really fast and that sets up a C.Short -> S.Roundhouse which most people won't see coming. Storm Kick throw or Sentinel Punch throw can connect a Commando Anti-Air Sakura Kick throw can connect a Tronne Projectile assist for a lot of damage Silver Samuri Punch throw will connect with Spiral Projectile as the right distance, allowing you do wave dash up to your opponent safely These are all of the combinations I can think of off of the top of my head. The assists that are the best for these are Spiral Projectile, Sentinel Ground, Marrow Projectile, Psylocke Anti-Air, and Cyclops Anti-Air. Some throws just won't work with this scheme because they change the position of you and your opponent, like Cable's kick throw. If you try to call and assist and then throw, the assist will come out facing the wrong direction because the beginning of the throw changes the positions of you and your opponent and then get thrown the other direction. Posted by FluffyXXL on 10:03:2001 08:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by 4 Prong It's blackheart/commando. Usually, you don't want to let Blackheart build meter. Your objective is to stay mobile enough to not allow Blackheart to SJ and throw demons. Sentinel and Cable are decent choices for this. Sentinel will usually need an assist to keep BH grounded like either BH or Commando AAA backing him. Most characters with straight air dashes can deal with Bh in the air like Storm just because he cannot air dash above her. If BH tries to SJ and throw demons, you can SJ and air dash towards for a quick combo and put BH back on the ground. Any character that can get up there and apply pressure to BH at that horizontal can be effective against BH. That's why Cable is a good choice because of his jab viper beam. Once he's grounded, you can either stay close to apply pressure or keep your distance as to avoid commando assist. The later is usually the better of the two choices as long as you always SJ whenever he does and don't try to predict, but instead react to his SJing. If he tries to stay on the ground or rushdown, you can usually beat it with a AAA. Just to let you know, the real problem with this matchup isn't against Bh, but against whoever comes in next. if it's BH/Sent/Commando, then you can't let Sentinel ruin your next character. If he unloads his meter into either your character or your assist, it's pretty much the end of the fight. If it's BH/Cable/Commando, you get a bit of the same as it's just difficult in general to get yoru next character in safely and not get guard broken by AHVB. In a lot of cases, it's best to not dominate blackheart, but just keep up with him and build meter. Your next character in before you kill him and try to do it while commando assist is on the screen because BH really can't punish without his assist on the screen. You can switch to a rushdown character like Storm or Magneto and then dominate Cable. The worst he can do is snap you out, and seeing as how he can't reliably combo into it, most of the time he's not ready to do it. Posted by FluffyXXL on 10:03:2001 08:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by gief Why plyers as Shady K don't do cable's s.HPs against the opp's last char? I use this a lot against comm and it works decently around here. I don't know shady personally, so I really don't know. I also dont' really know how to answer your question. Posted by gief on 10:09:2001 06:02 AM: 1 - How to get out of IronMan's GB, specially when I'm playing cable or Storm? 2 - I dunno if you know that, but let's say I have Sent in the shadyk/genghis unfly mode. Then you AHVBs me, but had already unflied and I'm able to block it at max jump height. If you AHVb again just when my block ends, will you hit me? Or, to be short, can Cable GB the stompometer? 3 - What's Spiral's best options against an opponent coming in(like GBs, that metamorph combo, what really works?)? Thanks a lot, your thread is eternal Posted by FluffyXXL on 10:11:2001 06:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by gief 1 - How to get out of IronMan's GB, specially when I'm playing cable or Storm? 2 - I dunno if you know that, but let's say I have Sent in the shadyk/genghis unfly mode. Then you AHVBs me, but had already unflied and I'm able to block it at max jump height. If you AHVb again just when my block ends, will you hit me? Or, to be short, can Cable GB the stompometer? 3 - What's Spiral's best options against an opponent coming in(like GBs, that metamorph combo, what really works?)? Thanks a lot, your thread is eternal 1 - Pushblock. That's the easiest way. If he has Psylocke, you can't really avoid it if he can do the japanese setup. If you're not in the corner though, pushblocking will allow you to escape 2 - No, he can't GB you. Unfly puts you in the SJ state where you can block and even attack. If you do a normal jump however, you loose your unfly mode and are back in regular jump mode and are pretty screwed at that point. 3 - If you're in the corner, you can do QCF+Short for an instant guard break. If you want to combo metamorph off of that, you can. You can also do spiral buster and it will work and you can call knives and start a trap. You can also try to just jump and toss one knive, quick drop, and then launch for an AC and end it with a spiral buster and get move knives. If you're not in the corner, just start a basic WOS trap until your opponent gets out. Posted by newbie on 10:18:2001 07:10 AM: Hi, Fluffy, congrats for your 2nd place at the last MvC2 tourney. I would like to confirm some of my beliefs about the cable vs strider battle. If strider calls bomb and cancel it into ouros, and cable jumps forward just as he sees the bomb(so he can AHVBs the ouros start and be out of the bomb way) can strider block the AHVB? I was trying alone (using both controllers) and I'm pretty sure that if Cable reacts fast, he will be able to j forward and ahvb before the peak of the jump catching strider on the ouros start animation(or bomb recovery animation if he doesn't cancel). I'm asking because genhis said that strider can block. I know he's good but I think he's wrong on this. If strider calls bird can cable ahvb it on reaction? I think the bird gets in the away but people saids to me that the bomb would be safer. I know cable can psychic ahvb it, but on reaction(specially from the ground)? I don't think that's possible. Lastly, chain into hp+doom, ouros seems to be the favorite way of srider players to start their traps. wouldn't pushblock at every chain amkes combo safe against it? what else should I know about the cable vs strider battle? I play both of them. Thank you so much, Fluffy Posted by CaptainCanada on 11:09:2001 02:07 AM: Some tiny technical questions on Doom here: 1) When I DHC switch Doom in, would the Electric Cage be a safe option if the opponent's blocking something on the ground (rather than the Photon Array)? The chip on that is unbelievable. 2) Why is Doom's guard break listed as j. LP, DF + HK into aerial rave? Couldn't the D + HP launcher work as well? 3) Would the, uh, Sphere Flame be an easy option after a guard break (instead of a launch)? Or is the damage on that too low? Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:09:2001 07:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by CaptainCanada Some tiny technical questions on Doom here: 1) When I DHC switch Doom in, would the Electric Cage be a safe option if the opponent's blocking something on the ground (rather than the Photon Array)? The chip on that is unbelievable. 2) Why is Doom's guard break listed as j. LP, DF + HK into aerial rave? Couldn't the D + HP launcher work as well? 3) Would the, uh, Sphere Flame be an easy option after a guard break (instead of a launch)? Or is the damage on that too low? 1) No, this move recovers very slow. The only thing that is relatively safe (ie, not against Cable, Cyke, and possibly Sent) is to use his Photon Array on the ground. If you DHC from a position that's at about full screen, nothing else can touch you as far as I know. 2) Because D.Fierce is really hard to connect with that. It's so much easier to use DF.Roundhouse. DF.Roundhouse is super fast, almost instant. So, you can literally see him loose his guard and even wait for him to push block and start falling before you have to stick out the DF.Roundhouse. That, and it leads right into the infinite. The other variation I've seen is SJ.Jab, Air Dash UB, Air Photon Array. I've seen this work, but it's not as easy as a simple J.Jab, DF.Roundhouse. 3) Damage is low, recovery is high, and it's easier to do DF.Roundhouse. BTW, if you're planning on playing Doom a lot, try to learn how to do the infinite. It's really easy to set up after the guard break. Posted by ThE CRoW on 11:09:2001 02:08 PM: .. hey fluffy just got a couple of q's first wats the easiest infinites i can use for mags/cyke/storm second i tried cammy and i saw this vid where they guy does a KBA then at the end he dashes then launches the opp. i can do this but i was just wondering whats the max times u can do this trick, i know its rollable but none of the people i play roll Posted by teammember003 on 11:15:2001 05:29 AM: Fluffy, come back. Do you think Cable/Sent/Comm can be good( And I want Cable first, to use both wonderful assist with no battery, and maybe DHC Sent later)? Posted by randomplayerx on 11:19:2001 07:26 PM: Hey fluffy nice thread here. I loved mvc and just now am getting into mvc2. (I know I'm late) Anyways I love to play with Jin, and I usually I throw in strider, and iceman. Here recently I've been experimenting with doom, cable and the all powerful storm. I'm going to keep Jin in my lineup (using his AAA) and I love iceman if for no other reason becuase he annoys the hell out of my friends. Anyways who do you think works the best with Jin? Thx in advance Posted by ThE CRoW on 11:19:2001 08:03 PM: .. im no fluffy but im also using jin, and ive teamed him up with doom, mainly because his aa is annoying and if your friends dont know how to roll like mine then theres an otg and u can cancel any of his supers using dooms aa Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:20:2001 01:39 AM: Re: .. quote: Originally posted by ThE CRoW hey fluffy just got a couple of q's first wats the easiest infinites i can use for mags/cyke/storm second i tried cammy and i saw this vid where they guy does a KBA then at the end he dashes then launches the opp. i can do this but i was just wondering whats the max times u can do this trick, i know its rollable but none of the people i play roll 1.) What do you mean by infinite? 2.) You can KBA three times in one combo, but it's pretty worthless. The first KBA puts your opponent into the corner and you close by. Then, as a juggle (not OTG) you dash into the corner with S.Jab -> C.Fierce and do the 2nd KBA. That is guaranteed once you hit the S.Jab. The third is an OTG and is rollable. You dash forward with C.Short -> C.Fierce and do the next KBA combo. To get the corner juggle, the positioning at the end has to be very specific and if your'e too far away, it won't work. Posted by ThE CRoW on 11:20:2001 01:48 AM: .. tnx fluffy, nm about the infinites, i ask sum 1 else, didnt think you were gonna check the thread anymore, one last question is ken's shoryuken super invincible?? i saw this vid i think it was choi vs. some guy , the guy sent sent's drones at ken then ken did his super and the drones just passed him Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:20:2001 01:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember003 Fluffy, come back. Do you think Cable/Sent/Comm can be good( And I want Cable first, to use both wonderful assist with no battery, and maybe DHC Sent later)? It is a good team, but it is a very advanced team. You cannot rely on your assists to combo into AHVB. It's nice when they do, but they aren't supposed to do so. What you have to do is learn to use your sent assist to zone and lock down with S.Fierce, grenades and jab-viper beams and try to land a C.Short when your opponent gets close. You also need to learn to combo Commando assist in AHVB combo. So, do C.Short -> C.Forward -> S.Roundhouse (insert Commando assist) XX AHVB. That commando assist is the difference between three AHVBs killing one character and one AHVB-HSF DHC killing. If you can do that with Cable, there isn't much out there to stop you. Really good rushdown Storm or Magneto still has an advantage. Strider/Doom is still a problem. But, a lot of other teams aren't. And proper use of Commando still helps against Cable's Counters. The 2nd part is you have to be able to use Sent/Commando to beat Cable/AAA teams. If you have the Sent, then you'll do fine. If you don't, the way you will have to beat XXX/Cable/AAA is to use your Cable to either gain a very fast lead on the point or to kill an AAA, then run away for the rest of the match and try to build meter safely. Basically, if you can land AHVBs without the use of your assists and if you can handle the Sent/CapCom vs Cable/AAA matchup, you will do fine. Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:20:2001 01:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by randomplayerx Hey fluffy nice thread here. I loved mvc and just now am getting into mvc2. (I know I'm late) Anyways I love to play with Jin, and I usually I throw in strider, and iceman. Here recently I've been experimenting with doom, cable and the all powerful storm. I'm going to keep Jin in my lineup (using his AAA) and I love iceman if for no other reason becuase he annoys the hell out of my friends. Anyways who do you think works the best with Jin? Thx in advance I'll be straightforward, Jin is not a good character. You will not beat top tier characters like Sent and Cable with Jin. Other than that, Jin isn't as bad as some people think. Jin/B-Doom can be really annoying. Jin's AAA is also really good against rushdown. I think Jin/Iceman/Doom would work for you. Jin/Doom combo works pretty well close in with Doom assist chipping and J.D.Roundhouse drills chipping as well. Iceman can help with things fullscreen. Then, you can bring Iceman in when you have a suitable lead and wait out time. In general, Jin does well with Sent and Doom for assists just to let you know. Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:20:2001 02:04 AM: Re: .. quote: Originally posted by ThE CRoW tnx fluffy, nm about the infinites, i ask sum 1 else, didnt think you were gonna check the thread anymore, one last question is ken's shoryuken super invincible?? i saw this vid i think it was choi vs. some guy , the guy sent sent's drones at ken then ken did his super and the drones just passed him I just ask because if you mean actual infinites, he only has one that I know of and it's character specific. I wasn't sure if you were asking about uncombos or infinites. I can explain the combo/uncombo options with team MSP but it gets long. Shoryu Reppa is invincible while Ken is doing his DPs. When he's recovering, he can get hit. You can use that to go through things like HSF and other assorted crap that gets in the way if you use it at slightly less than half screen. It's not super reliable, but it can set up DHCs if Ken ever gets snapbacked into the game. Posted by ThE CRoW on 11:20:2001 02:45 AM: .. tnx, and for the infinite nm , do you have any long air combos for mags that has an airdash, so far the only one i know is launch lp,lk,lp, airdash u,f, lp,lk,lp, hk or grav. to tempest, are there any longer ones? so you mean even if say doom does his ball super and i do kens regular dp, not super, it will still be invincible, i dont mean as an assist as a front char. tnx again for the help and sorry for the bother Posted by IcarusDownworks on 11:20:2001 04:24 PM: Hey, do you have any good combos/infinates for Silver Samurai? Or tips/strategies for a team of S.Samurai(proj)/Sent(ground)/BH(AAA)? Thanks in advance. Posted by Judgement Day on 11:20:2001 08:55 PM: Alright... I don't know if this has already been covered or not but I'm not going to look through 20 pages of posts. I need help with Psylocke. Blackheart/Venom/Psylocke is my team. Blackheart and Venom run point the whole match with Psylocke on AAA duty, but I can't really find much to do with her when she's the last one out and has to finish off my opponent's last character by herself. I don't need any suggestions on picking other characters or anything, I just need some good damaging combos to perform with Psylocke. All I'm currenly doing is a short ground combo ending in Psiblast, Psithrust, or a basic magic series 12-hit air combo ending in her flip kick to the Psiblade. Posted by StriderX on 11:21:2001 12:46 AM: Know I'm not fluffy, but Judgement Day, you do know that you can cancel the psiblade into butterfly maelstrom, right? That will add some damage. Plus you can do triple jump combos, but the damage scaling is beastly on those. And fluffy, was he asking for mags or cyke infinites? Cause, uh, Mags has a shitload of infinites. Some are Sent specific, some not. I assume he was asking for Cyke's infinite, which is, in case you want to know, is c.fk, sj lp, lk, lp, d.lk, d.lp, d.lk, d.lp, d.lk. I don't do it that often, but I remember someone saying do the lp lk lp about medium speed, then pause a split second to let his magic series reset, the do d.lk, d.lp very quick, pause to let it reset again, the do the d.lk, d.lp, d.lk as fast as you can, then relaunch, repeat. Posted by StriderX on 11:21:2001 12:49 AM: icarusdownworks, I believe SilSam's infinite is: in Firesword mode, fp, down, fp, down, fp. I don't actually remember if you have to hit down or not, haven't played SilSam in a while, try both, with down and with out it. I also can't remember if you have to be in Firesword, it's easier, but you might be able to do it out of Firesword mode. Sorry I can't be more specific, just play around. Posted by Judgement Day on 11:21:2001 01:08 AM: Whenever I try canceling the Psiblade into her Butterfly Hyper my victim always falls before the butterflies actually get out to hit them. Am I missing something here? Posted by FluffyXXL on 11:21:2001 01:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by Judgement Day Whenever I try canceling the Psiblade into her Butterfly Hyper my victim always falls before the butterflies actually get out to hit them. Am I missing something here? You need to do this: Whenever you do a Psi-blade, remember that you can do three separate psi-blades by pressing different buttons. If you do Psi-blade with Short (i recommend this for you) then hit another short, and then roundhouse. If you notice, she'll do two more Psi-blades, one going up a bit and the last will go up a lot. You need to cancel into the butterflies right when she does the roundhouse. So, as soon as you hit roundhouse, do super. It should always hit. BTW, Psylocke stuff starts near the bottom of page 1. Posted by teammember005 on 12:01:2001 06:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL The 2nd part is you have to be able to use Sent/Commando to beat Cable/AAA teams. If you have the Sent, then you'll do fine. If you don't, the way you will have to beat XXX/Cable/AAA is to use your Cable to either gain a very fast lead on the point or to kill an AAA, then run away for the rest of the match and try to build meter safely. Basically, if you can land AHVBs without the use of your assists and if you can handle the Sent/CapCom vs Cable/AAA matchup, you will do fine. I'm using cable/sent/comm or cyc or ken with the purpose of get a lead with cable, either by ahvbs or slowly chip, then I usually CHSF Sent in runaway all game(like lots of sj backs). I prefer to not DHC Cable to Sent if I have extra levels cause I can hurt the incoming char with a gb. My questions: 1 - Do you think Cable/Sent/Cyc or Ken can be as good as with Comm? Can I, using both combinations(like Comm against Sent and Storm, Cyc against Strider and Magneto), deal with all counter teams? 2 - I tend sometimes to play way much keepaway(space control) with my Cable, so I do some chip but don't get the opportuniy to c.HK them often. Do you think it's better to play keepaway(attempting to c.HK when the opp gets close) or go chasing my opponents? If it depends on the opp chars, from which top tiers should I keep distance and against which ones should I rushdown? Thanks a lot, Fluffy, once more. Posted by teammember005 on 12:01:2001 06:50 PM: quote: Originally posted by Judgement Day Alright... I don't know if this has already been covered or not but I'm not going to look through 20 pages of posts. I just need some good damaging combos to perform with Psylocke. First I would like to say that the best feature of this thread is that you have 20+ pages of great info on it. I learn so much from Fluffy, and I think that you would like to read it all too, it's really nice. Asides from that, Fluffy wants to help, but I think it's really boring to him to repeat himself, specially post the same combos over and over. Go look the whole thread and you'll find great stuff that will probably help your game a lot, it helped mine. About psy, I think her most damaging combo would go like (jump in), launcher, HK, psiblade, butterflies. Try and you'll see, it takes more than her multi jump combos. You can DHC out of it too. Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:02:2001 08:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember005 I'm using cable/sent/comm or cyc or ken with the purpose of get a lead with cable, either by ahvbs or slowly chip, then I usually CHSF Sent in runaway all game(like lots of sj backs). I prefer to not DHC Cable to Sent if I have extra levels cause I can hurt the incoming char with a gb. Suit yourself. Most of the time though, I only have enough levels to kill the first character off with AHVB, so I DHC to Sent and get the same result because there wouldn't be much of a guard break. You get a pretty fast lead, one less character to deal with, and sent/commando with Cable on AAA in the background, just in case you need to CAHVB later. quote: Originally posted by teammember005 My questions: 1 - Do you think Cable/Sent/Cyc or Ken can be as good as with Comm? Can I, using both combinations(like Comm against Sent and Storm, Cyc against Strider and Magneto), deal with all counter teams? Commando does almost as good a job against Strider and Magneto as Cyke or Ken would. Basically, if Strider is getting close enough to drop Doom to beat Commando AAA, you're already doing something wrong. Against magneto, you really just need a speedbump, and any character will work. Occasionally you can aim to actually hit Commando AAA on Mags, but he makes a good wall. The thing about switching up though, is that you can get countered easier. If you switch to Cyke to land AHVB, you're opponent could play magneto on you (much worse for Cyke) and vice versa. It's a lot easier just to learn one team and how all of the match-ups work, that way you don't have to try to second guess yourself at tourneys. It's much harder to play counter-characters in matchups you don't know than to play loosing matches with characters you do know. quote: Originally posted by teammember005 2 - I tend sometimes to play way much keepaway(space control) with my Cable, so I do some chip but don't get the opportuniy to c.HK them often. Do you think it's better to play keepaway(attempting to c.HK when the opp gets close) or go chasing my opponents? If it depends on the opp chars, from which top tiers should I keep distance and against which ones should I rushdown? Thanks a lot, Fluffy, once more. You should never have a need to C.Roundhouse with Cable. If they are dashing in, do S.Jab. So much priority. S.Jab -> S.Forward -> S.Roundhouse XX AHVB. It won't beat Magneto, but it beats other things. Honestly though, your opponents shouldn't be dashing in on you unless they have a death wish or Cable is your last charcter. Your AAA should take care of that. Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:03:2001 08:35 PM: Tips for playing Cable: I posted this in it's own thread entitled "MVC2: Using Cable" so look for it there. Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:04:2001 11:05 PM: btw, i got some feedback from jinmaster so i updated it a bit too and organized it a bit better. Posted by CodeRed78 on 12:05:2001 01:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL It is a good team, but it is a very advanced team. You cannot rely on your assists to combo into AHVB. It's nice when they do, but they aren't supposed to do so. What you have to do is learn to use your sent assist to zone and lock down with S.Fierce, grenades and jab-viper beams and try to land a C.Short when your opponent gets close. You also need to learn to combo Commando assist in AHVB combo. So, do C.Short -> C.Forward -> S.Roundhouse (insert Commando assist) XX AHVB. That commando assist is the difference between three AHVBs killing one character and one AHVB-HSF DHC killing. If you can do that with Cable, there isn't much out there to stop you. Really good rushdown Storm or Magneto still has an advantage. Strider/Doom is still a problem. But, a lot of other teams aren't. And proper use of Commando still helps against Cable's Counters. The 2nd part is you have to be able to use Sent/Commando to beat Cable/AAA teams. If you have the Sent, then you'll do fine. If you don't, the way you will have to beat XXX/Cable/AAA is to use your Cable to either gain a very fast lead on the point or to kill an AAA, then run away for the rest of the match and try to build meter safely. Basically, if you can land AHVBs without the use of your assists and if you can handle the Sent/CapCom vs Cable/AAA matchup, you will do fine. Ok, I read this and I just want to say that i'm a huge sentinel fan, but if i wanted to make that team of Cabel and Sentinel different which assist would be better for both cable and sentinel, would adding the cammy assist or the Cyclops assist work better. And also, whichever one is the best would that 3 kicks bring out AAA Jumping in the air still work? Posted by CodeRed78 on 12:05:2001 01:24 AM: Ok, fluffy i got another question for you. I've been playing Magneto for a long time now and the only thing i can't get about him is his infinite, it's like the timing is to much for me to get down. Do you have any suggestions? Is there certain pauses inbetween the lp, d+lk, d+lp that i don't know about? Posted by CodeRed78 on 12:05:2001 01:29 AM: Got another question for you. HOw would you rate this team? Magneto, Sentinel Psys, or i switch psy for Cammy's AAA. What AAA works better with this team. Posted by CodeRed78 on 12:05:2001 01:31 AM: Ok, Geekboy said something in a past post about A sentinel and Psy infinite they have in the corner. Is this a true infinite, because i can't seem to get psy to come back out after i hit them with a lk, lk, upwards rocket punch. Posted by CodeRed78 on 12:05:2001 01:36 AM: Ok, I need some strategies for this team. The only person in the game that i don't like to fight against is Cable, what kind of strategies would you suggest for fighting against cable with Sentinel (what moves should i never throw out against cable) Magneto, fighting against a sentinel with a AAA and able to mash out of 90% of tempest combos is hard to fight against in my opinion. Sentinel takes alot of damage away from magneto when he's hit. Also, how would i fight against a cable with 2 AAA behind him and only jumping back doing viper beams the whole match. I know how i'd do it with cable just bait out the assist and destroy the assist but is that the way you'd do it with anyone seeing how the cable just takes a half a second to jump back in the air and do his AHVB Posted by InvincibleStorm on 12:05:2001 03:16 AM: do u know any really advanced combos/tactics with magneto and storm?i already know a lot with them but i want to know more.and do you know any good combos with tron bonne?thanx in advance. Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:06:2001 03:35 PM: quote: Originally posted by InvincibleStorm do u know any really advanced combos/tactics with magneto and storm?i already know a lot with them but i want to know more.and do you know any good combos with tron bonne?thanx in advance. Tell me what you know with Magneto and Storm so I don't end up telling you the same things. For T.Bonne, the best ground combo is is C.Short (one hit) -> S.Strong XX Lunch Rush. This is by far her most damaging combo. You can land that easily off of a cross-up J.fierce. T.Bonne has all kinds of games you can play, but the usually only work in one on one situations and one simple assist upsets her entire gameplan. Cross-up fierce is a major component. However, hopefully, by the time she gets into the match, you will still have an assist left. If you do, you can work all kinds of tricks with her air dash, mostly because you can dash over a few times with fierce and then dash short once and land in front and straight into C.short. Posted by teammember006 on 12:09:2001 04:11 AM: It's possible to start the stompometer(unfly) mode with Sentinel without getting hit? If it is, how? Thanks a lot, Fluffy Posted by teammember006 on 12:09:2001 05:07 AM: I just read like half of the Cable stuff you wrote above and I'm printing it all to read later, and I must say: Amazing job, Fluffy!!! This kind of stuff is what makes your posts so unique. Thank you very much for all your efforts! I'll be back with questions later Posted by teammember006 on 12:09:2001 05:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by CodeRed78 Ok, Geekboy said something in a past post about A sentinel and Psy infinite they have in the corner. Is this a true infinite, because i can't seem to get psy to come back out after i hit them with a lk, lk, upwards rocket punch. That's because you can't use an assist more than once per combo. What you can do is, against an assist, call Psylocke, then repeat lk mk rp as many times as you want(or as many times as you can do it without being punished by teh point char). I think that is what geekboy mentioned, but I'm not sure Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:09:2001 07:49 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember006 It's possible to start the stompometer(unfly) mode with Sentinel without getting hit? If it is, how? Thanks a lot, Fluffy No. You have to get hit out of the air and not have it be a knockdown. For example, you're flying with Sentinel and you get hit by Cyclops assist. You now have unfly mode. Or, you are flying and you get hit by Psylocke. You fall to the ground and don't have unfly mode. If you ever normal jump, you loose it. Posted by dreamteam on 12:12:2001 03:25 AM: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Commando does almost as good a job against Strider and Magneto as Cyke or Ken would. Basically, if Strider is getting close enough to drop Doom to beat Commando AAA, you're already doing something wrong. Could you explain how to use Comm assist against Strider/Doom, please? You should never have a need to C.Roundhouse with Cable. If they are dashing in, do S.Jab. So much priority. S.Jab -> S.Forward -> S.Roundhouse XX AHVB. It won't beat Magneto, but it beats other things. Honestly though, your opponents shouldn't be dashing in on you unless they have a death wish or Cable is your last charcter. Your AAA should take care of that. What about the c. short? I play cable/comm and have the same problem. I don't have Psy to AHVB from the assist and I play keepaway so combos are rare. Is this OK, or should I try c.short or s. jab more? And why s.jab instead of c.short. I think c. short is better because you can hit a crouching opp and dodge some high attacks. Plus, starting cable vs cable, c. short usually beats s.jab upclose. Do you use s jab cause it has more range or what? Posted by dreamteam on 12:12:2001 03:40 AM: [QUOTE]Originally posted by FluffyXXL -S.Fierce X4 is very instrumental in some fights. If you're trying a pseudo trap with S.Fierce X4, you have options. If you have a projectile assist (Storm, Spiral, or Sentinel Ground are common), you can work pseudo traps with S.Fierce X4, grenades, and jab-viper beams. Can't they just tag in and kill me. I think that the risk is too big. I usually try s fierces only if my opp is landing from full screen. -The fastest way for Cable to build meter in a pinch is OC.Fierce. What do you mean by OC. fierce. If it is crouching fierce, don't bother answering. If not, please tell me. Cable owns the majority of basic rushdown (=no air dash, ie. Wolverine) because you can grenade and release it directly above your head so that rushdown can't jump at you. Not tremendously instrumental, but it has it's usefulness. What about TK grenade? It works for me(until now) and seems to be a little bit faster. vs sentinel - If he comes down and stays on the ground, you can pushblock him off and attempt to regain control with Jab-Psimitar or S.Fierce X4 (at this point, he can HSF, to which you can Jab-Psimitar XX AHVB). Is it possible to cancel the HPs to Psimitar,AHVB on reaction to an HSF? Instead of s.fierce patterns, I like to do j. HP(+ assist), roundhouse grenade(hold until gets at te other side of the screen). If Sent tries HSF, my grenade stops him. If he wavedashes, my assist is in the way. Which version(s fierce or mine) do you think it's better and why? Vs. Magneto provides an adequate speedbump on the ground. The thing about Magneto is that his air dash is so fast and goes so far that he can still dodge practically any AAA you throw at him. What's speedbump? Is Sent C better to use than AAAs against mags? If you can establish full screen on him, S.Fierce x4 traps again. I saw, at srk vids, Duc doing j. HP very close to the ground instead. What do you think I should do?(I'm very afraid of tag in combos) If you feel like you're getting too close to the corner, jump forward to try to get over him (yes, forward does exist in this match-up) instead of running like a scared bi-otch. No sj? Thanks a lot, man Posted by dreamteam on 12:12:2001 03:50 AM: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Vs. Doom If not, then don't try, but instead wave dash under his photons and be right under him. When you mean to wavedash under the photons, I should start the wavedash after he shoots them, right? What if he does the faster QCF + fierce, can I escape from it? What if it is Doom/BH, should I wavedash as soon as I see BH or after I block it? Vs Cyclops Other than that, let Cyke build up his meter and try to build yours with OC.Fierce. You won't build as fast, but it's better than SJing and getting outprioritized by SJ.Roundhouse. I disagree here, Fluffy. I think it's much better to try to sj with him(long range) and do HPs, so if I get a hit I can AHVB, and if he blocks an HP I can chip twice with VB before landing. Is there anything I don't know about this match? Vs. Cable If you're on the recieving end and Cable starts to throw a grenade from SJ height, by all means, start wave dashing. You don't want to block it. If you wave dash, you can get under him and work the same types of patterns you did against Doom. The other thing you need to be doing is air throwing a lot. What if both have assists. Like, if I called Sent assist before sj, the other Cable can't wavedash, right> BUt he can AHVB on prediction, I think. I remember Viscant saying that the usual Cable vs cable would go like call AAA, sj grenade while opp blocks AAA. But I use Comm, a non priority AAA who gives me little block stun. Could you go a little further on this match, please? Thank you, Fluffy. Sorry if I'm asking too much. Finally, do you mind doing the test of this thread, and maybe inviting other good players to do it too, thanks a lot: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=48694 Posted by teammember008 on 12:26:2001 06:25 AM: Fluffy, could you answer dreamteam's questions at your other thread(or here, whatever), please? Whata bout a little guide to Sent too, if you have the time? Thanks a lot Posted by FluffyXXL on 12:26:2001 07:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by dreamteam Originally posted by FluffyXXL [B] Could you explain how to use Comm assist against Strider/Doom, please? It basically boils down to who is going to call his assist first. As I said in the previous posts, you want to pick one direction and keep going that way. Your goal is to keep Strider in front of you when he teleports. That way, you don't get trapped behind him and Doom. Keep in mind, if you call Commando into Doom assist, Doom starts by hitting low and will beat Commando, who's only weakness is low. You want to keep enough distance to allow Commando room to come in and not get hit. So, in jumping back, you also create enough space between you and Strider that if he calls Doom, you can respond with Commando assist and Commando will have enough room to hit Doom. And remember that you can AHVB Doom on the way down. The trick is keeping Strider down, so whenever I call commando to hit Doom and make strider block, I do S.Fierce x2-3. If Strider tries to teleport, he gets hit. If not, then he has to block. Regardless, you will cancel into Jab-Psimitar XX AHVB. There are times when Commando will hit Doom late and the rocks will still let loose. In those situations, just keep jumping back and block. Just don't stop moving or Strider has enough time to teleport and box you in. Posted by Super Armor on 01:05:2002 05:31 AM: Sometimes I use this Sentinel Juggernaut Colossus team. I would like your advice on the order of the team either with and without juggy´s glitch. What are the better ways of tagging out juggy either. Thanks in advance. Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:05:2002 08:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Super Armor Sometimes I use this Sentinel Juggernaut Colossus team. I would like your advice on the order of the team either with and without juggy´s glitch. What are the better ways of tagging out juggy either. Thanks in advance. A guy at my arcade uses this exact team (I hope you're not him) and does pretty well with this team. I would say put it in the order of B-Juggernaut/Y-Sentinel/A-Colossus. You basic game plan will be to power up Juggernaut while distracting with an assist and then waiting for your opponent to attack so you can variable counter to Colossus (which has good priority and does good damage. The only problem is that you no longer have a meter. From that point, it depends on what team you're playing against. Posted by Super Armor on 01:07:2002 04:18 AM: Thanks a lot for your help. And I´m not the guy you know.) Posted by teammember009 on 01:11:2002 06:44 AM: hey, Fluffy, what about the litle sent guide? Will you do it? If not, could you give me some sent/cyclops tips? thanks Posted by BusterWolf on 01:11:2002 09:46 PM: Fluffy what ya think about Cable..Ironman...Doom..and who are counter characters for them...I hardly play Marvel too busy with CvS2 but it would be nice to know...Peace.. -Dr.B aka Brandon Posted by teammember009 on 01:13:2002 05:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by BusterWolf Fluffy what ya think about Cable..Ironman...Doom..and who are counter characters for them...I hardly play Marvel too busy with CvS2 but it would be nice to know...Peace.. -Dr.B aka Brandon I think that Fluffy covered most of it in this same thread, so I'll give you a brief version of what I learn. Cable - Wins against BH, Cyclops, Sentinel and often Doom too. Loses to Spiral and probably Storm too(Storm runaway has many advantages, rushdown is still dangerous when she doesn't have the lead). Theoretically, mags should win against Cable because of his options but I think that's an even fight in tourneys and such. Because of mags randomness, both can get killed easily. In theory too, Strider should beat cable, but if Cable can get strider or his assist once, cable wins. Even to me too. Cable isn't hard to learn, but needs meter and works better with an AAA IM - Ironman has thousands of infinity setups and it's a battery who can do lots of damage. You could call him a magneto with more space conrol but much less speed. IMO, the entire top tier has a slight advantage over him. Still a good char. Doom - Still one of the best assists, good for everyone and a need for Strider. On point, he counters Spiral and BH, but is at a disadvantage against teh other top tiers(IMO). Doom has not unwinnable matches(maybe Strider), but he will work hard for the results. As a team: Use IM, Cable, Doom, in that order. Doom B will be your primary assist(he's good for cable too, don't bother). Try to learn some IM inf setups with Doom assist(you can start the inf of Cable B startup too) and battery with sj HP grenades, HP, air dash up HP , grenades and that kind of stuff if you feel the need too. You can use teh air dash and the flight to call Doom and go to the other side, gaining chip and control. To get cable in, remember that you can use teh counter into AHVB too surprise your opps. It's better to keep IM alive(Proton cannon it's an instant DHC that takes huge damage and it's o fast that beat even AHVBs). With your Cable, play more keepaway style and traps with Doom assist. If you connect an HP, Doom or your opp does a mistake, use AHVBs. learn his guard break cause it's so good for your game. Doom won't be very good on point with that team. If you need, use him to buld some meter with j back HPs. remember that IM's counter(B assist) can be used against people who tries to rush your cable. Counter into proton cannon than HVB or Photon Array and see your opps life go away. I think that's all. Good luck! BTW, if you want some really good stuff, read this entire thread. Be patient, read it slowly and you'll be good at MvC2. Posted by Hu-man on 01:13:2002 09:02 AM: Mags vs. Sent/BH Hey Fluffy (or anybody else that plays mvc2 a lot), how does one beat Sent/BH trap using Magneto? Are there any good assists for mags that would counter this trap? Any strats or help would be much appreciated! Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:13:2002 09:43 AM: quote: Originally posted by BusterWolf Fluffy what ya think about Cable..Ironman...Doom..and who are counter characters for them...I hardly play Marvel too busy with CvS2 but it would be nice to know...Peace.. -Dr.B aka Brandon Cable has already been addressed. Iron Man isn't that great, but he can get the job done. If you can guard break into infinite and combo into infinite, then use him. If not, then i wouldn't bother, cuz there isn't much left for him to do . Smart Bombs can be fun, and J.Fierce is good, but it just doesn't work well against top tier. Doom also has been on the decline. Too many characters beat him now, and it's harder to make people block his assist too. For your team, i'd play Doom/IM/Cable. You can start with doom, and plan on DHCing to Proton Cannon, and if you need it, you always have cable. Posted by teammember009 on 01:20:2002 06:08 AM: Fluffy, what you think that cable can do against striders who use HK bomb as a setup to start ouros? I was thinking about jump forward AHVB or(if I'm jumping back) jab vb or maybe a fast wavedash into AHVB, or calling assist as a shield...I have lots of ideas, but I'm really not sure, and right now I have no striders to play against. thanks for your help Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:20:2002 10:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember009 Fluffy, what you think that cable can do against striders who use HK bomb as a setup to start ouros? I was thinking about jump forward AHVB or(if I'm jumping back) jab vb or maybe a fast wavedash into AHVB, or calling assist as a shield...I have lots of ideas, but I'm really not sure, and right now I have no striders to play against. thanks for your help You should never have to block a bomb. If you do, you either 1.) stood there like an idiot or 2.) get stuck by Doom assist. In either case, you deserve it. Bombs are too slow to just through out at random against Cable. Just combo or AHVB that shit. Posted by teammember009 on 01:21:2002 06:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL You should never have to block a bomb. If you do, you either 1.) stood there like an idiot or 2.) get stuck by Doom assist. In either case, you deserve it. Bombs are too slow to just through out at random against Cable. Just combo or AHVB that shit. I'm asking because clockwork mentioned that you should do bomb, ouros to start the special against cable. If I just AHVB, the bomb will take me out of it. I'll do little damage, lost one bar and strider will start the trap. That's why I'm thinking about diff strats. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:21:2002 10:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by teammember009 I'm asking because clockwork mentioned that you should do bomb, ouros to start the special against cable. If I just AHVB, the bomb will take me out of it. I'll do little damage, lost one bar and strider will start the trap. That's why I'm thinking about diff strats. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks Again, I stand by my original comment, you should not be getting hit by bombs unless they are set up correctly. The only known use that I know of for Bombs is between Ouro rotations. It doesn't start a rotation, but it can form a very solid bridge between rotations of Ouro. In that situation, you didn't fight your way off of him, or you're in the corner. Both mean you need to move around more. btw, if you can, direct me to where he's talking about that so i know what you're talking about. Posted by teammember009 on 01:24:2002 06:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Again, I stand by my original comment, you should not be getting hit by bombs unless they are set up correctly. The only known use that I know of for Bombs is between Ouro rotations. It doesn't start a rotation, but it can form a very solid bridge between rotations of Ouro. In that situation, you didn't fight your way off of him, or you're in the corner. Both mean you need to move around more. btw, if you can, direct me to where he's talking about that so i know what you're talking about. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...ghlight=teaches I think the discussion about it starts at page 3 and goes on until the end. BTW, there's a post from gief with some nice questions that weren't answred at any thread yet(I think, some were answrred, but some weren't). If you're feeling workaholic today, could you talk a little about that too? Thanks a lot! Posted by Hu-man on 01:24:2002 09:21 AM: quote: Hey Fluffy (or anybody else that plays mvc2 a lot), how does one beat Sent/BH trap using Magneto? Are there any good assists for mags that would counter this trap? Any strats or help would be much appreciated! Guess I'll try again...I can't seem to dash in without running into a BH assist or getting chipped away by Sentinal. A specific strategy to get around this using Magneto would be great. Posted by WushuAL on 01:24:2002 12:08 PM: Silver Samurai and stuff... Any good strategies for Silver Samurai? My current team is Silver Samurai/Sentinel/Iron Man (w/ AAA). One thing that seems to work well, but is kind of tacky, is I jump around (and, for example, let Magneto chase me) and throw out IM's AAA and then use Silver Samurai's lightning super (sorry, but the names of his supers are too weird for me). This does pretty good damage, especially if there's an assist out. Also, any suggestions on his enhancement supers? I think I remember what each does, but are any of them really worth one meter? I only get out the fire or ice enhancement when I get on the wrong side of my opponent and try to throw out the lightning super. Also, what's a better assist for him? His slash or ninja star (don't know the names, but I think they're the ground and projectile assists, respectively). The ninja star comes in handy for opponents who run away, but sometimes the slash works well with Sentinel rush down. (No, I don't know what I'm talking about and yes, I am a newbie) Posted by WushuAL on 01:24:2002 12:10 PM: Anti-Cable Eh, what's good against Cable... and don't say Cable~!!~! I guess I'm willing to try anything although I haven't yet done so. Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:24:2002 04:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by teammember009 http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...ghlight=teaches I think the discussion about it starts at page 3 and goes on until the end. BTW, there's a post from gief with some nice questions that weren't answred at any thread yet(I think, some were answrred, but some weren't). If you're feeling workaholic today, could you talk a little about that too? Thanks a lot! Ok, i was trying this today, and it seems that Clockw0rk was right. You can't AHVB the bomb from full screen while it's being called as far as I can tell because it doesn't seem to get hit by anything. However, and this is way too funny, you can OC.Fierce it as it's coming down. As long as you time it so that you do it early enough that it won't explode over you, then you can hit it out of the way. I also hit it with J.Jab once, but I haven't been able to reproduce that. Also, if Strider does a Bomb, you can just wave dash and AHVB from that. It will hit Strider before he can recover. If he called a helper, it's also getting hit. If he called some kind of projectile helper, like maybe Sent ground or something, then you can't AHVB. Just SJ backward and throw a grenade from up there. Even if he Ouros, he wastes half of it while you're in the air doing stuff to keep up there. Posted by mixup on 01:24:2002 06:25 PM: Msp as a team faces alot of problems from mag or storm with sent behind them, do you have any tips for fighting against this team using msp? Posted by Roundhouse on 01:25:2002 04:44 AM: quote: Originally posted by FluffyXXL Ok, i was trying this today, and it seems that Clockw0rk was right. You can't AHVB the bomb from full screen while it's being called as far as I can tell because it doesn't seem to get hit by anything. However, and this is way too funny, you can OC.Fierce it as it's coming down. As long as you time it so that you do it early enough that it won't explode over you, then you can hit it out of the way. I also hit it with J.Jab once, but I haven't been able to reproduce that. Also, if Strider does a Bomb, you can just wave dash and AHVB from that. It will hit Strider before he can recover. If he called a helper, it's also getting hit. If he called some kind of projectile helper, like maybe Sent ground or something, then you can't AHVB. Just SJ backward and throw a grenade from up there. Even if he Ouros, he wastes half of it while you're in the air doing stuff to keep up there. Let me jump on your answer here. What if I wavedash, AHVB, but he cancelled the bomb into ouros, will he be able to block or teleport out of it? Can an AAA eat the bomb for me? Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:25:2002 06:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hu-man Guess I'll try again...I can't seem to dash in without running into a BH assist or getting chipped away by Sentinal. A specific strategy to get around this using Magneto would be great. It's all a matter of getting in, and then repeating triangle jumps until you get him into the corner, then rape him with throws and stuff. Getting in is the hard part. Just remember that BH assist has two parts to it, a top and a bottom. If you're on the ground and you block, you're blocking the bottom. If you SJ and you block it, you block the top. Once you block one section, it won't hit you again, but if you move into the other one, it can hit you. For example. Sent does C.Fierce+BH assist. You block C.Fierce, and BH assist comes out. After you block it, you can feel free to move around and wave dash all you want, but you have to be careful if you jump cuz you'll jump into the top part. Other than that, if Sentinel tries to take to the air, you own him there. Jab, Short, Fierce and Roundhouse all beat anything he's got i think if you SJ up too. Stomp patterns can get to you, but there's always holes. Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:25:2002 06:53 AM: Re: Silver Samurai and stuff... quote: Originally posted by WushuAL Any good strategies for Silver Samurai? My current team is Silver Samurai/Sentinel/Iron Man (w/ AAA). One thing that seems to work well, but is kind of tacky, is I jump around (and, for example, let Magneto chase me) and throw out IM's AAA and then use Silver Samurai's lightning super (sorry, but the names of his supers are too weird for me). This does pretty good damage, especially if there's an assist out. Also, any suggestions on his enhancement supers? I think I remember what each does, but are any of them really worth one meter? I only get out the fire or ice enhancement when I get on the wrong side of my opponent and try to throw out the lightning super. Also, what's a better assist for him? His slash or ninja star (don't know the names, but I think they're the ground and projectile assists, respectively). The ninja star comes in handy for opponents who run away, but sometimes the slash works well with Sentinel rush down. (No, I don't know what I'm talking about and yes, I am a newbie) Well, there are different things you can do with Silver Samuri. Keep in mind, none of these things work well on Cable or Sentinel. You can either go for mad rushdown or mad runaway, depending on how you have your team set up. In terms of rushdown, the best assist for this is Spiral Projectile. It does massive chip, and you can use a pattern of D.S.Jab+Spiral -> S.Strong XX Jab Ninja Star. Or, instead of the Ninja Star, you can wait and do a tiger knee Jab Ninja Star and come down with a Fierce to start it again. This can be really annoying, but is easily broken up by AAAs. As for runaway, you need some kind of assist to occupy your opponent while you throw Ninja Stars at him (notice a theme here?) like Doom Anti-Air Assist or like you have, Iron Man Anti-Air Assist. Some are better than others. Pretty much any anti-air assist can get the job done however. Other things I would suggest are never use Fire, Ice, or Lightning modes. They are pretty much a waste. They have uses, but having the meter there is worth way more in the long run. His lightning super really is the key to victory. Your opponent can't ever leave a helper out to dry if you have a meter, cuz you'll easily do over 50% damage with a simple C.Fierce XX Lightning Super. That works on opponents too btw (think bread and butter combo). And if a helper ever gets stuck behind you, it's 70-80% I think. Some more than others. Your biggest enemies are Cable and Sentinel. Aside from that, you have bad matches against Magneto, Storm, and possibly Spiral and Strider. You have good matches against Cyclops, Doom (AFAIK). The thing is your bad matches can still be winnable so long as you can fry a helper. You opponent can't just call it at random against you, or hope it will always be there to reset the tempo of the match. That's a very strong point for Samuri, even against some of those matches that are bad. The only matches where I don't see any way for him to win are Cable, Sentinel, and Magneto. Selection of assists is still a big factor in winning with Samuri though, especially against the top tier. Posted by FluffyXXL on 01:25:2002 07:03 AM: Re: Anti-Cable quote: Originally posted by WushuAL Eh, what's good against Cable... and don't say Cable~!!~! I guess I'm willing to try anything although I haven't yet done so. Cable is not really as good as people think. In all reality, he's great for punishing mistakes. And everyone makes mistakes. Head to head though, he actually looses a lot of top tier match-ups. Or at least he can loose them. Storm: can't stop the rushdown. Owned. Magneto: can't stop the rushdown. Owned. Sentinel: can't let him fly. 50-50 Spiral: too many knives. Owned. Strider: crafty Strider/Doom can win. 50-50 Cable: nothing to say. 50-50 Doom: AHVB owns. Cyclops: AHVB owns. Keep in mind, this is accounting for pretty much the optimum team setup, and doesn't factor in mid-game match-ups, guard break, or the CAHVB factor. Most charcters don't do well against Cable mid-game because he gets to guard break if he gets in first. That alone is reason enough to assume that Storm and Strider are the best counters, as they can usually DHC to get in and can't be AHVBed for it. That all depends on the first character, so you better learn. Posted by benn93z28 on 02:07:2002 07:42 AM: Hey Fluffy, I have some posers about IceMan.. I sat down and thought about his uses long and hard, and it seems to me that IceMan can be a real thread in mid-game, and deadly in late-game when opponent has less then 1/3 of his/her life. My question is, what do you think about a team such as Storm/IceMan/Sent? My brother has my DC, so I can't really test out the DHC's for Storm/IceMan, I'm not sure if Lightning Storm DHC's into Artic Blast (considering that the pellets fly upwards and outward .. I think it would connect, just not for a lot of damage). Plus, with Storm in the backfield, I could think of some nasty combos, such as IceMan's bread-n-butter air combo XX Arctic Blast XX HailStorm .. Once again, no way to test, but I would think 60% damage is highly possible, maybe even more if you a meter left for Sentinel's HSF. Also, you also mentioned that IceMan is weak against teams that can chip as good as he can. I agree, but you also mentioned that the odds can go into IceMan's favor if one of the main proponents of the chipping team is killed. Which is why I thought it could be a good idea to start Storm on point. I also have a few questions regarding IceMan vs Sent (one on one). - If IceMan does his IceBeam, and Sentinel blocks, can Sentinel punish? - Same question again, replacing Artic Blast instead of IceBeam. Anyways, I'm rambling here, but I just want your input. Basically, I want a good solid top tier team that's somewhat unique (everyone here uses Mag/Storm/Psy or some slight variation, Cable/Cammy/XXX, and Cable/Sent is also popular here) --Benjamin Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:10:2002 10:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by benn93z28 Hey Fluffy, [snip] --Benjamin The majority of Iceman's strategy is to block and not be pressured by chip damage. Along with that, he also chips you with unibeam as long as it's safe. He doesn't really pack any priority with him and isn't too great a rushdown threat as his wave dash seems unreliable at best. He looses to rushdown pretty harsh, so any assist that will make him block and pin him to the ground so he can be more easily rushed screw him over pretty good. Some noteworthy ones are Doom AAA, Sentinel ground, Spiral projectile (notice they chip iceman...) do a good job of holding him down so you can start triangle jump games. So, in summary of his top tier matches, he looses to Magneto (rushed down), Storm (rushed down), Spiral (knives), Strider (Doom AAA), Cable (AHVB everything), Sentinel (rushdown, stompings). I don't know how effective Doom's rushdown is against Iceman, but I would assume he either beats Doom or goes 50-50 with him. I also think he beats Cyke (weak rushdown, no chip). As for in mid-game, he has problems getting into the match. You basically have to DHC him in off of a successfully combo-ed super. Other than that, against a character like Cable, you can't get in any way safely. And against the rushdown oriented characters like Magneto, Storm, Strider, Sentinel, and Doom, you'll have to keep them off of you from the start, and also can never miss a Icebeam or you get hit and die. Basically, there isn't really a good time for Iceman to be in against top tier. I would probably say to start Iceman in most matches, cuz that's where he can be most useful. You don't want to start him against characters like Magneto however. Anyway, you don't want to face something like mid-game Storm, Cable, or Sentinel, so either putting him first or last would best suit him. If you want something unique, play either Strider/Doom or Spiral. I hardly ever get to see a good spiral nowadays, and Strider/Doom has just fallen into the background even though it's still a formidable team. Other good choices are (IMO) Dhalsim, Megaman, and Ruby Heart. Dhalsim and Megaman pretty much are anti-rushdown. Ruby is a bit more of a general annoyance. Iceman is also a good choice, but try to learn when you can force your opponent into a C.short cuz he has one good combo. Most people that play Iceman think it's all runaway, and it isn't. However, no one looks past the selective chipping to try anything. Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:11:2002 06:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by mixup Msp as a team faces alot of problems from mag or storm with sent behind them, do you have any tips for fighting against this team using msp? I never responded to this. Sorry Well, if you're talking Magneto/Storm/Psylocke vs Storm/Sentinel/AAA, then in all reality, I don't have much of a suggestion. Storm/Sentinel should be beating Mags. If Magneto ever gets hit by S.Roundhouse or a C.Short (comboed to S.Roundhouse) or a triangle jump Short (combos into S.Roundhouse) then it's GGPO. 80%+ while Sentinel picks up the pieces with C.Fierce and flight games. Sentinel (or if the AAA is Cyclops) should be on par with Storm. At high levels of play, Storm should beat sentinel, but not by much. Especially when you factor in that Sentinel still has another character (who could either beat Storm, or is probably better than Psylocke) and you're still at a loss. In all reality, you've been counter-teamed. Posted by benn93z28 on 02:12:2002 10:04 AM: Storm/Hulk Hey Fluffy, Thanks for the tip on "Team Damage" Inc. Last weekend, I got the chance to experiment with some good results. Mind you, I still lost, but I won a lot more, and some of the ones I lost were giveaways (usually messing up a combo that would have killed the opponent). I used Storm/Hulk/Tron, and found it to be very effective on assist-killing. I also had success in baiting people with Hulk's Dash assist, in which they had an unfriendly encounter with a Hailstorm. You have any other tips for this team? or another good 3rd character to use with Storm/Hulk? Thanks, --Benjamin Posted by MARVELFREAK on 02:12:2002 11:29 PM: Fluffy (or anyone else): I got a question about a particular matchup. I play Storm(proj or variety), Cable(anti-air), Cyke(anti-air). I have trouble against Cable(anti-air),Spiral(proj),CapCom(anti-air). The teams are in that order. My trouble is I start w/Storm against his Cable. He constantly runs away and uses capcom assist. I can't get close w/Storm, and he chips me pretty good. Should I just run away, build meter for cable, and hailstorm his assist when available? Or switch my order? Posted by Chun-Li's Pimp on 02:13:2002 12:28 AM: to marvel freak: I'd just suggest switching CapCom for cyke in that match up, that way you can rush him down a little better. If you do land a combo, make it a snapback and get commando out there and kill him. =) My question is: Does anyone here know how to do Chun-li's Infinte on Sentinel? I have the vid if anyone needs to see it, but it's japanese and pretty fast and it's long too (50 hit dizzy). If anyone can give me one, or help me disect this one, I'd appreciate it. aim: chun lis pimp Posted by DeathFromAbove on 02:13:2002 01:05 AM: Fluffy: Help me with a matchup, please? I'm playing Storm/Sent/Cyke. But getting killed by Spiral/Sent/Capcom. I do pretty good at rushing Spiral at the beginning, but she eventually gets swords and it all just goes to hell. So I guess I need some tips on breaking out of sword traps. I'm just crouching and mashing on Sent-Y, which works about 1/5 of the time. Can the team be rearranged for a better order? I tried pretty much all orders. I had more success breaking the trap with Cyke 1st (being able to use Storm-A), but couldn't really keep momentum, and fell back in the traps repeatedly. Sent first just died in all sorts of unamusing ways (too much Capcom and teleporting above to fly, total lockdown on the ground, bleh). Or is my only option to die and then pick Doom 1st? -DFA Posted by Deevian on 02:13:2002 03:26 AM: Re: Storm/Hulk quote: Originally posted by benn93z28 Hey Fluffy, Thanks for the tip on "Team Damage" Inc. Last weekend, I got the chance to experiment with some good results. Mind you, I still lost, but I won a lot more, and some of the ones I lost were giveaways (usually messing up a combo that would have killed the opponent). I used Storm/Hulk/Tron, and found it to be very effective on assist-killing. I also had success in baiting people with Hulk's Dash assist, in which they had an unfriendly encounter with a Hailstorm. You have any other tips for this team? or another good 3rd character to use with Storm/Hulk? Thanks, --Benjamin This team is very much like my own main team, which is Mag, IM, Hulk, Team infinite death. I personally like mag's alot better then storm because he has alot more possiblities and potential for damage. IM has a rapidly growing occult following and for a reason, a master iron man is a truly deadly opponent, and hulk turns any combo started by IM or Mag into a 100% combo. But if you don't like IM I would suggest Mag, Storm Hulk. This team absolutly destroys teams that rely on assists and also highly aggresive teams that don't place a high priority on blocking. if you interested in in Mag, IM, Storm combos/strats look up the thread I started awhile ago called mvc2:Mag,Im,Hulk. Posted by benn93z28 on 02:13:2002 09:53 AM: Hey there, Well, I like Tron's assist because it's just wonderful for punishing assists, one of the best in the game, and can set up the point character for comboes. Mag/Hulk/Tron would be good, the only problem is that unlike Storm's air combo, people can mash out of the Tempest AC, and it's a lot easier to do Storm's AC into Lightning Attack XX Lightning Storm then Magnus' AC into HyperGrav XX Tempest. But, speaking of Magneto, it would seem that Tron's proj assist can set up Magneto quite easily. For two things, it makes opponents block for a longer period of time then other assists, which gives Magneto ample chance to cross the opponent up, and if the opponent is not hit, he can just walk up and throw them and start the combo from the throw. Mag/Storm/Tron is definately worth investigating.. --Benjamin Posted by Deevian on 02:13:2002 08:07 PM: Mag/Storm/Tron is one of my very old teams. The idea behind the team is solid. Thats have two characters that get go well together and at the same time benefit greatly from the tron assist, however, the tron assist turns out to be not as great it you'd think. c.lk +tron c.lk doesn't get you anywhere beside a medium-sized chuck of damage because there doesn't seem to be way to make a combo it, and any time mag lands a c.lk the opponent should experience mass pain. cross up tron assist works but not if your playing somebody as good or better then you. Storm + tron have the same problem but storms rush down has more problems to begin with so is even weaker. Neither mag nor storm have any problems punishing assist on their own so it just doesn't get you very far. Mag/IM/Hulk is not to be underestimated because basically if you play your cards righ, every time you hit the opponent with either IM or Mag they die 98% of the time(http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...&threadid=53641 for combos) and then you get to guard break possibly into another death combo. Mag/IM/Cable also works although its less dependant on massive triple team super at the end of combos then it is just consistant damage. There are also a ton of easy combo into infinite with IM/cable I mainly use c.lk + cable AAA s.LP normal jump and start infinite or you can get super flashy and do c.lk c.lp XX fly f.lp f.lp down+hp + cable AAA XX Unfly normal jump and start infite. anyways gotta goto class, laters Posted by mixup on 02:14:2002 11:39 AM: fluffy, can you help me out with some teams that will directly give Storm/Sent/Cammy trouble? i am thinking about using ssc and i am curious for what counter teams i may run into. Thanks for any opinions. *EDIT* Thanks for answering my old question I have changed my team to magneto/storm/cyclops instead, any tips on surviving the old question? I just try to play safe and block well and counter assist{depending on opponents assist of course} Posted by mixup on 02:14:2002 11:47 AM: Mag/Tronne Or Storm/Tronne do ridiculous damage no matter what the case may be. you are just inexperienced with the proper way to combo with them. Mag with tronne starts his infinites and by the end of it, the character is almost dead. There are ways to launch into infinite after c.lk,c.lk,+Assist with magneto, that is my point. I hate how doom assist just owns up on poor tronne though... Posted by Deevian on 02:14:2002 09:40 PM: How do you start mag's infinite with c.lk +tron assist c.lk? Any why do you need the tron assist? if you land a c.lk with mag, the opponent should be taking massive damage regardless. Posted by MadDogMiXon on 02:14:2002 09:51 PM: Why not start an infinite with magneto with that extra damage she provides? C.lk,+Assist,C.lk, dash in,C.lk to time it where the 3rd ring combo's, dash in,c.lk,c.fp, into whatever. Mag/Tronne is killer, sucks against strider/doom though. Storms combo's hurt really bAd with tronne and she zones really well with her on her team. Storm and tronne combo well from the Lightening storm into either of tronne's supers. They aren't that bad. And storms rushdown with lk's and lp's is just sick, go fight the computer when they do it right. Posted by Deevian on 02:14:2002 11:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by MadDogMiXon Why not start an infinite with magneto with that extra damage she provides? C.lk,+Assist,C.lk, dash in,C.lk to time it where the 3rd ring combo's, dash in,c.lk,c.fp, into whatever. Mag/Tronne is killer, sucks against strider/doom though. Storms combo's hurt really bAd with tronne and she zones really well with her on her team. Storm and tronne combo well from the Lightening storm into either of tronne's supers. They aren't that bad. And storms rushdown with lk's and lp's is just sick, go fight the computer when they do it right. There is no unmashable tempest in mag stom tron is now very important with nearly everybody being able to mash out of tempest. And comboing the off the c.lk tron assist c.lk seems unpredicatable as tron frequenly decides to uncombo. I do agree that the storm does great damage with tron but she does even greater damage with sentinel too and he's much less of a liablity. Posted by MadDogMiXon on 02:15:2002 04:06 AM: You can combo with tronne+mag consistently, it's simple as i posted. Mag/tronne have an unmashable tempest combo in the corner. You don't need an unmashable tempest combo with them if you can infinite well because of the damaging startup off of tronn assist. You have your opinion, that is fine with me.. Posted by WushuAL on 02:15:2002 10:34 AM: I was reading Monkey's forum on Silver Samurai's infinite but I don't quite understand. Is it for corner only? How exactly do you execute the infinite? (The forum said something about just 2 hits) Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:16:2002 05:24 PM: Re: Storm/Hulk quote: Originally posted by benn93z28 Hey Fluffy, Thanks for the tip on "Team Damage" Inc. Last weekend, I got the chance to experiment with some good results. Mind you, I still lost, but I won a lot more, and some of the ones I lost were giveaways (usually messing up a combo that would have killed the opponent). I used Storm/Hulk/Tron, and found it to be very effective on assist-killing. I also had success in baiting people with Hulk's Dash assist, in which they had an unfriendly encounter with a Hailstorm. You have any other tips for this team? or another good 3rd character to use with Storm/Hulk? Thanks, --Benjamin There are a lot of characters you can use with Storm/Hulk. Tron, Cyclops, Iron Man, Doom, etc. As for tips, the team is a bit dated. Storm/Sent is the more current version. HSF and the combo afterward does as much damage as Gamma Crush will do as a DHC. In the end, this team all comes down to Storm. If you can play her, you get to land a hit for nearly 100%. If you can't, Storm dies, and Hulk dies soon after. Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:16:2002 05:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by MARVELFREAK Fluffy (or anyone else): I got a question about a particular matchup. I play Storm(proj or variety), Cable(anti-air), Cyke(anti-air). I have trouble against Cable(anti-air),Spiral(proj),CapCom(anti-air). The teams are in that order. My trouble is I start w/Storm against his Cable. He constantly runs away and uses capcom assist. I can't get close w/Storm, and he chips me pretty good. Should I just run away, build meter for cable, and hailstorm his assist when available? Or switch my order? Storm should be owning Cable with rushdown. Wave dash towards him and get as close as possible, but don't stick anything out. If he calls an assist or beams and you're within range of hitting him (or making him block) with your assist, call it and then try to SJ and air dash past his Commando and come down on top of him. Once you force him to call his assist, he has to keep running and you can get an air throw in or get close to him still. Between triangle jumps and C.shorts, he's going to get hit sooner or later. If you can't rushdown, it would be good to run away a bit, so that Cable feels the pressure and might try to attack. If you lure him towards you, you can rush that shit down easier. Don't worry about trying to Hailstorm assists. It's more important to stick to Cable than to try to kill the assist. If Cable jumps a lot, chances are you'll get AHVBed for your troubles. Spiral shouldn't be that much trouble without a good trapping assist, so your Cable should be able to just beam. Grenades are also good. Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:16:2002 06:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove Fluffy: Help me with a matchup, please? I'm playing Storm/Sent/Cyke. But getting killed by Spiral/Sent/Capcom. I do pretty good at rushing Spiral at the beginning, but she eventually gets swords and it all just goes to hell. So I guess I need some tips on breaking out of sword traps. I'm just crouching and mashing on Sent-Y, which works about 1/5 of the time. Can the team be rearranged for a better order? I tried pretty much all orders. I had more success breaking the trap with Cyke 1st (being able to use Storm-A), but couldn't really keep momentum, and fell back in the traps repeatedly. Sent first just died in all sorts of unamusing ways (too much Capcom and teleporting above to fly, total lockdown on the ground, bleh). Or is my only option to die and then pick Doom 1st? -DFA Storm/Sent should be beating Spiral. The next portion of the match is fighting Sent/Commando. I would think that would be easier with Cyclops. Cyke can run away and chip to get you a lead, and then if you ever get to land a super, you can DHC to HSF or hailstorm if Storm is 2nd, then to HSF to get a fresh sent in. Once you gain that lead, then all you have to do is play carefully. You never need to block low playing Sent against Sent, so you never have to worry about getting hit by Commando. Just be patient and wait for your opponent to get hit by Cyclops. Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:16:2002 06:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by WushuAL I was reading Monkey's forum on Silver Samurai's infinite but I don't quite understand. Is it for corner only? How exactly do you execute the infinite? (The forum said something about just 2 hits) It's a crouch cancel. If you hold down when you do S.Fierce, Samuri will cancel into a crouch before he would normally recovery from the S.Fierce, so you do a C.Jab -> S.Fierce, C,Jab -> S.Fierce... I think you get like, five rotations or so but I'm not sure. I know it really isn't infinite because you get pushed back slightly. But, you can combo a lightning super at the end for the extra umf of damage. I also think you can just do repeated S.Fierces if you have hella good timing with it. Posted by FluffyXXL on 02:16:2002 07:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by MadDogMiXon You can combo with tronne+mag consistently, it's simple as i posted. Mag/tronne have an unmashable tempest combo in the corner. You don't need an unmashable tempest combo with them if you can infinite well because of the damaging startup off of tronn assist. You have your opinion, that is fine with me.. In all reality, it doesn't matter if you can infinite even. You just need the basic Mags combos. Like, here's what i would do if i ever landed a C.Short. C.Short -> C.Fierce /\ S.J.Roundhouse XX Air Dash Down Towards XX A.D.D.Short -> A.D.Forward, walk underneath, C.Short+tron -> C.Forward XX Shockwave It is an uncombo, but it does around 90% damage. You also have many options off of this. Throw, go behind, stay in front, triangle jump, combo super. These are the types of things that make Magneto good and throwing on the massive damage tron assist just increases the damage on everything. IMO, it really don't matter too much having tron because Mags can still do 50-60% on his own comboing a shockwave. Posted by BadNewzMvC2 on 02:18:2002 03:49 PM: Question This has to do with a cammy glitch that i have done about 3 times in MvC2 within the time span of a year but i dont use her much. This i think is a true glitch. But i think it is a uncontrolable glitch. If it can be Controlled it would make cammy even more of a monster of a character. anywayz While playing my friend a while back i decided to do a random cammy super the HCB+PP and he was way to close to me and i flew behind him then hit the wall on the other side of the screen and flew right back off instantly with a jump kick to hit him in the back and it continued the super move. I guess my question is have u ever seen this combo b4? and Do you know if u can controll this? This is so fast that i dont think you have any time to react to it and if people start catching to it. It would make this a safe super when u dont bounce off the wall. All times are GMT. The time now is 12:30 AM. Show all 566 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.